differneces....87-88 T-Bird Reply #60 – September 07, 2011, 07:36:01 PM Quote from: TOM Renzo;366975I prefer the computers from 87-88 Thunderbird Turbo Coupes. This would include the LA3, LA2, LA, 8UA, and LB3 code ecu's. All of them are functionally interchangeable with each other as long as a 5 speed is used. NOW does anyone know who wrote this??????????????? Which of the other PCMs have to do with California emissions or Export? Quote Selected
differneces....87-88 T-Bird Reply #61 – September 07, 2011, 07:50:42 PM O.K., I forgot my tape measure.....who peed further than the other? Quote Selected
differneces....87-88 T-Bird Reply #62 – September 07, 2011, 07:51:45 PM So if i re-gear a TC to 4.11 gears the boost only comes on full in First gear????? Dude you are not comparing the same type of ECM. The LA2 AND LA3 are about the DUMBEST ECM ford ever made. I am not going into ECM shifted AUTO TRANNYS. That is apples and oranges. As the matter of fact the last ASE course i passed went into this and i passed the test. So what you are talking about is totally different. If the boost was controlled by VSS and RPM it would go nuts because of the different PARAMETERS. The LA 2 does not get any info from the TRANNY for boost and it does not control it by those inputs. Even the early TC had full boost in all forward gears. Why would ford limit the boost in the upper gears. That makes absolutely no SENSE and you KNOW THAT. So it seems like everyone is beating this to death. Just admit the quote that an 87 TC only full boosts in 1/2 is not true. By the way the early coupes full boost in all gears also. So why would Ford do this to only one year. It makes NO SENSE. By the way maybe you should tell the poster that the sensors he posted are not even in the 2.3 T ford. Only the TPS and VSS. Also the ride computer only works above 10 LBS of boost in auto mode. So i guess Ford does not want it to work after second gear. Thank YouJust curious what does the ECM do when the AUTO TRANNY DOWN SHIFTS??????????????????? Totally confuses it i would think if it determines what you posted. Basically i am not an auto tranny guy and the first to admit that. But the modern trannys are shifted by the ECM. The manual trannys are shifted by the driver. The ecm on a computer controlled auto tranny knows when it is in any gear because it controls that. The T5 transmission does not have any outputs for gear selection. The shift light in most modern cars today are a combination of Vacuum RPM and Speed. Thats why when you climb a hill the shift light allows you to stay in a lower gear without it lighting. Either way i cant win this so i am going to throw in the TOWEL. Thanks for listening and it is was a pleasure. By the way i do not need a VALIUM. I pride my self and my business with the knowledge of my staff and myself. Have a good evening Quote Selected
differneces....87-88 T-Bird Reply #63 – September 07, 2011, 09:13:33 PM I'm not saying which side is "right" in this stupid, asinine, "you're taking this way too personally" argument. I'm merely pointing out that not only is it possible for the computer to determine which gear the car is in, but that it's also extremely simple. And as I pointed out, in my brand new, thoroughly modern Hyundai Sonata the upshift light is determined by two things and two things only: Engine RPM and VSS. Vacuum is not a parameter. The car will tell me to upshift from 5th to 6th at exactly 80 KM/HR (~50 MPH) regardless of engine load. Not only that, but if I'm going up a steep hill in 4th, it will tell me to upshift to 6th (not 5th) at exactly 80 km/hr. If I'm ciasting down an hill and using engine braking by shifting down into 5th it will tell me to upshift into 6th, even though I'm slowing down. Because it knows what gear I'm in. It knows the engine RPM and it knows the VSS. Doesn't give a rat's ringpiece about vacuum. It just knows that it wants 6th at 80 km/hr.Considering that the ECM tells the auto tranny when to downshift (the A4LD's shifts are computer controlled) I think it would pretty much know what to do when it downshifts. But even if it didn't, the dumbest of ECMs can think fast enough to realize a sudden increase in RPM combined with no increase in VSS (plus a stab at the TPS) means it downshifted. Plus, you know, most automatics DO have a gear position sensor, unlike most manuals.Swapping 4:11 gears into a TC should have no effect whatsoever on the ECM, at least if you do it properly, because doing it properly means replacing the VSS gear with one calibrated for the new gears. VSS vs RPM will remain the same, even if the actual road speed changes.As for these "Mystery sensors" you refer to: There is a cam position sensor on a 2.3. It's built into the distributor pickup. Kinda necessary for sequential fuel injection, because without it the ECM wouldn't know which injector to fire. Same goes for the crank position sensor (CPS and CMS are combined in this application). Don't believe me? Cut the TACH or "PIP" signal wire from the distributor to the EEC-IV computer and see how well your 2.3 runs. All of which is moot, because I believe the poster of that statement meant camshaft and crankshaft speed (IE "RPM"), not position. The speed density and vacuum sensors you refer to do not exist because their parameters are instead determined by the VAM (or the MAF in a mass airflow car). The computer works out the vacuum and air density by the readings it takes in from the VAM. In other words, the computer "computes". It's just what they do... And again, I think the poster was going for "the amount of air entering the engine and the engine's load", although they may have worded it incorrectly. Which is also moot, because an ECM does not need this parameter to determine the gear the car is in. Engine speed and VSS are it. Quote Selected
differneces....87-88 T-Bird Reply #64 – September 07, 2011, 09:42:12 PM The TC does not have SEQUENTIAL INJECTION and i am well aware of what the PIP DOES. The TC has GROUPED INJECTION. So your car is so well designed it allows the engine to lug in a gear while climbing a HILL. Even a car like a HYUNDAI would not do that.Believe what you want i do not care and my coupes run great with full boost in all forward gears. I know that if you change the SPEEDO gear the speedometer is re-calibrated. But wouldn't it be a simple thing to do to increase boost. Change the SPEEDO GEAR that was my point. So if the speed versus RPM is used then what if you lug the engine down and then what would the BOOST do??? Your theory does not pertain to the TC LA2. It does not adjust BOOST with RPM OR VSS. Quote Selected
differneces....87-88 T-Bird Reply #65 – September 07, 2011, 10:09:23 PM The on board computer makes the "SHIFT" light work. This computer knows how fast the engine is going (RPM) and how hard it is working (MAP), how fast the car is going (VSS), and how far the accelerator is pressed down (TPS). It uses this information 10 times every second to decide if you could get better fuel economy by shifting to the next higher gear. Source SAE and AERA. And GM tech. Quote Selected
differneces....87-88 T-Bird Reply #66 – September 07, 2011, 10:12:21 PM PIPThe computer takes the signal and the pulse rate and determines the rpm. The computer sends a signal to the control module when to fire the coil. The control module automatically controls the dwell for sufficient saturation of the coil windings to give the proper spark duration given the rpm in real time without creating undue heat. It also monitors irregular or missed firing counts and will set a code if a failure is imminent.I know the PIP is used as a positioned reference. All electronic controlled engines have to know where TDC is or equivalent. Lets end this on a friendly bases. Tempers are running rather HIGH. But some posters need some social skills. AS some may think i might. Have a good evening Quote Selected
differneces....87-88 T-Bird Reply #67 – September 07, 2011, 10:41:02 PM You guys are NOT going to believe this !!!! I am SO glad I have a 5.0 in the Sport. Quote Selected
differneces....87-88 T-Bird Reply #68 – September 07, 2011, 10:45:39 PM Okay, just so I have this all straight, the main differences between 87 and 88 Birds are that LSx’s are awesome motors, Hyundai Sonata shift lights use RPM & VSS, TC ECMs don’t know what gear they're in and Vinnie is glad he has a 5.0 in the Sport. Quote Selected
differneces....87-88 T-Bird Reply #69 – September 07, 2011, 10:48:12 PM Quote from: FLSTCI71;367032Okay, just so I have this all straight, the main differences between 87 and 88 Birds are that LSx’s are awesome motors, Hyundai Sonata shift lights use RPM & VSS, TC ECMs don’t know what gear they're in and Vinnie is glad he has a 5.0 in the Sport. You nailed it Mike...lol Quote Selected
differneces....87-88 T-Bird Reply #70 – September 07, 2011, 10:53:34 PM Well i am glad i have this motor in my mustang and removed the 302. Sorry VINNIEhttp://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/tomrenzo/Picture006.jpg Quote Selected
differneces....87-88 T-Bird Reply #71 – September 08, 2011, 12:49:40 AM I'm well aware that there is no Cam sensor, those were just examples of how a ECM could detect gear. To be more accurate, the TPC COULD play in the boost with the tranny speed sensor. It would take nothing more than setting up a table for min/max operating speeds/rpms relative for gears and the throttle position to give the demand of air intake. Really the TPS is kind of a null point really considering the vacuum will do all of the work for you on that front. All it would essentially take is "Limit boost from x speed to x speed" and "Boost 16lbs from x speed to x speed" It's not rocket science to figure out that you can't break 80 in second gear in a tc and you won't be in Third taking off from a light unless you simply screwed up your shift. It's not possible for the ECM to know what gear it's in, yes, is it possible for it to make a pretty accurate guess, you're right it is. Based off speed and RPMs it could tell precisely what gear it's in. Quick, who knows what 28mph at 3500 rpm's is?! Can you guess?! Holy shiznit I believe it's second gear. Last time I checked 3500 rpms in Third would be around 38mph. Now, if I'm doing my numbers right, so far, and I am, then I believe with a pen and paper, if a human can do it, a computer sure as hell can. BTW, these numbers are based on stock T5 Gears with 3.55 final drive and 155/55/16's. Quick, who can tell me 33mph at 2500 rpms, what gear is that?!My point is not saying you're wrong about if the LA2 did or did not restrict the boost. My point, is that it COULD know what gear it is with a very simple and light weight calculation. It's physics, that's all. Speed+RPM=Gear. Granted, this would only be particularly accurate for a fully stock configuration, but that's all that little boost solenoid is for, stock configuration, that is. So I resend my earlier statement that I wasted mentioning other sensors that we all well know do not exist on the TC and was made out of nothing more than a point of reference. Quote Selected
differneces....87-88 T-Bird Reply #72 – September 08, 2011, 12:55:20 AM Quote from: TOM Renzo;367034Well i am glad i have this motor in my mustang and removed the 302. Sorry VINNIEhttp://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/tomrenzo/Picture006.jpg Btw Tom, that's quite nice. Get vid's of it please. I would like to see/hear that. Quote Selected
differneces....87-88 T-Bird Reply #73 – September 08, 2011, 12:55:35 AM Quote from: TOM Renzo;367013words, words, Why would ford limit the boost in the upper gears. That makes absolutely no SENSE and you KNOW THAT. words,words,words, i'm a douche, words, words. Ask a tuner. While we are talking theory here anyway, one reason i can think of is over loading the engine. Even in say a Terminator your not supposed to load the motor above 4th gear for a long time. I watched a dude load his car up with 4 adults and made a highway "run" only to toss a rod. Just a thought, you know as to perhaps would be a reason "why". As Carm stated, it would be chickin' greezy to do (limit boost in X gear)In any case, who gives a rats @$$. Anybody that cares would mod it anyway.Quote from: TOM Renzo;367022Believe what you want i do not care Yes you do. Quote from: TOM Renzo;366880Just for the record the 87 does not boost past second gear!!!!! That statement is the silliest thing i have ever read. I'm going to let you off the hook and say you mis-read someone here. Nobody said the car didn't boost past 2nd gear. They said it's reduced/limited it in the upper gears.Quote from: TOM Renzo;366880SEE YOU.byeQuote from: TOM Renzo;366882Once again SEE YOU.bye Quote from: TOM Renzo;366882I can feel the tension and i will take it and say BYE BYE.latazQuote from: TOM Renzo;366882Thank you and good byebuh-byeQuote from: TOM Renzo;366906I will move ON. on you go little oneQuote from: TOM Renzo;366951Just one more thing and i will never post here again. Quote from: TOM Renzo;367000So i will pop in time to time and read some posts . If you have any comments on this issue i will chime in. But other than that if i want to get beat up i will go home and have my wife do it. Thanks. :D:D6 posts later.Quote from: TOM Renzo;367013Either way i cant win this so i am going to throw in the TOWEL. One can hope, but you won't.Quote from: TOM Renzo;367027Lets end this on a friendly bases. Tempers are running rather HIGH. But some posters need some social skills. AS some may think i might. Have a good eveningWell, YOURS seems to be. Quote Selected
differneces....87-88 T-Bird Reply #74 – September 08, 2011, 02:10:31 AM Epic. thread.I laughed so hard at all the quotes... Quote Selected
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