differneces....87-88 T-Bird

Topic: differneces....87-88 T-Bird (Read 17167 times) previous topic - next topic

differneces....87-88 T-Bird

Reply #45 – September 07, 2011, 12:28:57 PM

So when you go through 1/2 gears then you drop off 40 HP?????????????? Fascinating. Clearly i posted fords advertised HP and it clearly shows the auto at 150. The speck sheet i posted is from ford records on HP and torque.

differneces....87-88 T-Bird

Reply #46 – September 07, 2011, 12:31:36 PM

1987:
ENGINE   APPLICATION   VIN CODE   HP @ RPM   TORQUE(Ft.Lb. @RPM)
2.3 turbo   Turbo Coupe (Automatic)   W   150 @ 4400   200 @ 3000
2.3 turbo   Turbo Coupe (5-speed)   W   190 @ 4600   240 @ 3400
3.8 V6   T-Bird, Cougar   3   120 @ 3600   205 @ 1600
5.0 V8   T-Bird, Cougar, Mark VII   F   150 @ 3200   270 @ 2000
5.0 V8   Mark VII LSC   M   200 @ 4000   285 @ 3000
1988:
ENGINE   APPLICATION   VIN CODE   HP @ RPM   TORQUE(Ft.Lb. @RPM)
2.3 turbo   Turbo Coupe (Automatic)   W   150 @ 4400   200 @ 3000
2.3 turbo   Turbo Coupe (5-speed)   W   190 @ 4600   240 @ 3400
3.8 V6   T-Bird, Cougar   3   140 @ 3800   215 @ 2400
5.0 V8   T-Bird, Cougar   F   155 @ 3400   265 @ 2200
5.0 V8   1988 - '92 Mark VII, LSC   M   225 @ 4000   300 @ 3200

This is also from FORD SPECKS.

differneces....87-88 T-Bird

Reply #47 – September 07, 2011, 12:42:55 PM

I'm STILL glad I have a 5.0.

differneces....87-88 T-Bird

Reply #48 – September 07, 2011, 12:43:31 PM

I prefer the computers from 87-88 Thunderbird Turbo Coupes. This would include the LA3, LA2, LA, 8UA, and LB3 code ecu's. All of them are functionally interchangeable with each other as long as a 5 speed is used.

NOW does anyone know who wrote this???????????????

differneces....87-88 T-Bird

Reply #49 – September 07, 2011, 12:47:22 PM

Can someone tell me how the LA2 ECM KNOWS WHAT GEAR THE CAR IS IN ????????????????????????????????????????

The ECM would have to know this to switch down the boost 6 POINTS APP. Now i know i am not the smartest guy in the world but if this cant be explained away then how is the BOOST CUT????? As far as i know the 5 speed tranny in a 87-88 TC are identical and they only have 2 switches. So seems like we have a little problem HERE CORRECT?????

Switch one Reverse lights
Switch two neutral sensing---- Used for the CRUZE

differneces....87-88 T-Bird

Reply #50 – September 07, 2011, 12:59:50 PM

Girls, girls........you're both pretty, now move along ....

What is it with you guys and the constant pi$$ing contests. The drama should be on day time TV for the old ladies to watch or on children's shows about how NOT to act in kindergarten with your little friends.... "I'm right" ...."No, I'm right"...No, I'm right"......."Oh yeah, I'll just quit and go home and never post again because I'm mad at you".......

differneces....87-88 T-Bird

Reply #51 – September 07, 2011, 01:00:56 PM

By the way, did I mention I was glad I have a 5.0 in the Sport?

differneces....87-88 T-Bird

Reply #52 – September 07, 2011, 01:29:04 PM

I'm glad I don't have a 5.0. I like seeing the 5.0 cars in my rear view and the expression on their face when I tell them it's a almost stock 2.3 4 banger. Although, the 5.0 (4.9) is a nice engine, even if it's false advertisp00get. The ECM would not know what gear the car is in physically, but it could know from the vehicle speed sensor and the TPS/Cam position/crank position readings as well as the air speed density and the vacuum pressure. With all of these factors combined, you can figure out what gear a car is in by doing to backwards math. Just saying, that sounds like some backwards ass shiznit ford would do. "We're not going to put 6 buttons in their to tell the ecm what gear we're in, we will make it do ALGEBRA! HAHAHAHA! I'm glad my car is male, it would never be able to get the math right otherwise.

differneces....87-88 T-Bird

Reply #53 – September 07, 2011, 02:03:52 PM

differneces....87-88 T-Bird

Reply #54 – September 07, 2011, 03:32:55 PM

Quote from: TOM Renzo;366976

Can someone tell me how the LA2 ECM KNOWS WHAT GEAR THE CAR IS IN ????????????????????????????????????????

The ECM would have to know this to switch down the boost 6 POINTS APP. Now i know i am not the smartest guy in the world but if this cant be explained away then how is the BOOST CUT????? As far as i know the 5 speed tranny in a 87-88 TC are identical and they only have 2 switches. So seems like we have a little problem HERE CORRECT?????

Switch one Reverse lights
Switch two neutral sensing---- Used for the CRUZE

LOL, you definitely have a valid point, no doubt something worth exploring farther...

The two 5-speed '87 I owned did full boost in all gears... One had a LA2 but the BCS was jumped out, the other was a late build with the LA3...

differneces....87-88 T-Bird

Reply #55 – September 07, 2011, 03:42:13 PM

Isn't the neutral wiring connected to the safety switch? I had to wire mine together to be able to start mine after the T5 swap...

Not saying it isn't for the cruise, as that would have to figure into the system somewhere as well...but I thought it was called the neutral safety switch?

differneces....87-88 T-Bird

Reply #56 – September 07, 2011, 06:14:32 PM

Ok now that i have your ATTENTION the ECM can not tell what gear the car is in and their fore cant limit BOOST. Now their are 4 switches involved with the transmission. Clutch has 2 and the tranny has 2. The clutch pedal contains the NSS and the Cruze contact switch. The Trannty has the neutral sensing switch and the reverse light switch. So the ECM does not have the capability of reducing BOOST from the above explanation. So i think we are at the root of the issue . Now please explain to me how the ECM knows what gear the tranny is in. Vinny this is not about My dad can beat up yours. We are discussing things that are relative. And in my case i take this stuff serious. It is what i do for a living.

The ECM would not know what gear the car is in physically, but it could know from the vehicle speed sensor and the TPS/Cam position/crank position readings as well as the air speed density and the vacuum pressure. With all of these factors combined, you can figure out what gear a car is in by doing to backwards math. Just saying, that sounds like some backwards ass shiznit ford would do. "

Not a CHANCE. I am going to say No way and i would like to know how these sensors could do that.

Vss so at a certain speed the boost cuts down????
Tps NG all that does is tell the ECM throttle angle
Cam sensor in A 2.3 t????????????????
CRANK SENSOR IN A 2.3 t????????????
Speed density In a 2.3 T ?????????????
Vacuume or pressure in a 2.3 T ????????????????????

Explain to me how this is possible with the sensors you say are in a 2.3 T ford?????????????

50 i know i have your attention now. You are definitely a sharp guy with facts and ability. My understanding of the difference in the two ECM'S is idle quality and some fuel trim parameters.

So i will pop in time to time and read some posts . If you have any comments on this issue i will chime in. But other than that if i want to get beat up i will go home and have my wife do it. Thanks. :D:D

differneces....87-88 T-Bird

Reply #57 – September 07, 2011, 06:35:43 PM

Quote from: TurboCoupe50;366988

LOL, you definitely have a valid point, no doubt something worth exploring farther...

The two 5-speed '87 I owned did full boost in all gears... One had a LA2 but the BCS was jumped out, the other was a late build with the LA3...

Thanks 50 i appreciate your honesty. Have a good evening Sir

differneces....87-88 T-Bird

Reply #58 – September 07, 2011, 07:02:32 PM

TOM Rezno, you need a valium, or something. Calm down, dude. It's the internet. Nobody has to win, and you don't need to get bent out of shape every time someone disagrees with you.

As for the ECM being able to figure out what gear the car's in - dunno about Ford, but I know old (late 90's) Saturn ECM's can tell what gear the car's in based on VSS and TACH signals. In fact if you swap a tranny from an SL2 into an SL1 (or vice versa) the cruise control won't work because the two transmissions have different final drive ratios and the computer will see an error between expected and actual VSS Vs TACH signals. It's not too hard to imagine Ford doing the same thing back in the late 80's, since Ford's EEC-IV was far and away more advanced than GM's ECM strategies (even GM engineers will admit this).

You don't need any special sensors at all to determine the gear the trans is in. You only need TACH and VSS, two inputs that all fuel injected engines already have. It's not algebra, it's simple math. In fact it's not even simple math, it's simply a matter of the ECM expecting to see a certain vehicle speed at a certain engine RPM. For example (and this is JUST an example, I am not bothering doing the math to find out actual numbers), 2500 RPM with a VSS of 10 MPH would indicate first gear. 2500 RPM @ 20 is going to mean second. 2500 RPM @ 30 is third. And so on. This would very easily be included in the ECM's coding. With a manual transmission every gear would have its own VSS to TACH ratio in any car by any manufactuer. And this technology most certainly existed in the 80's, because most 80's 5-speed cars had upshift lights for fuel economy. I don't remember if my old parts TC had one (didn't drive it on the road enough to notice) but my Cherokee did, and it had no gearshift position sensor. It went by engine RPM Vs VSS. My 2011 Sonata does the same. The upshift light comes on at certain speeds, whether going uphill or down (meaning vacuum doesn't matter). It expects an upshift from 3rd to 4th at 60 km/hr, 4th to 5th at 70 KM/hr, and 5th to 6th at 80 KM/HR and will turn that light on and keep it on until I shift, even if I'm going up a steep hill and gearing up would be impossible.

An automatic would be more difficult because of converter slippage, but even this can be used by the ECM to detect a malfunctioning lockup converter, or even a slipping transmission if there is both an input and output speed sensor (in fact this is a common problem with GM trucks - the check engine light comes on, a 700 series code is set meaning transmission problems, and the actual code will be something like "Transmission slipping detected" or "Transmission input/output speed implausibility". If the truck is under warranty it usually gets a new transmission. If it's not under warranty the customer usually learns to live with it because there are no perceivable drivability issues (they can not feel it slipping). Hyundai uses a similar fault detection strategy, which can result in some very interesting driving characteristics in a late model Elantra when the input speed sensor shiznits the bed (it's usually only a faulty sensor but you'd swear the transmission was screwed by the way it drives).

differneces....87-88 T-Bird

Reply #59 – September 07, 2011, 07:31:23 PM

Quote from: hypostang;366900

Really ???????????........... again with this

"Also, Turbo coupes in '87 only had boost in 1st and 2nd gear with the manual transmission. '88 had boost in all 5 gears. "
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"this was posted by a member named "ROYLPITA" not TurboCoupe50 and it is factually incorrect "

Everything Tom and Turbocoupe50 posted is not incorrect ,
Tom Jr you do not need to come in here and defend your father every time someone disagrees with him , He is a big boy with great tech info and is appreciated by most people on this forum ...You just come across as an ass when you start bragging . Granted Beau could try being less of an ass to Tom too and there would be less of this nonsense going on

Oops. Thanx for showing me that I needed to proof read and correct my errors. Just disregard that sentence, please.