I really HATE the 2.3 !!

Reply #120 – January 28, 2008, 03:40:43 PM

Nah. I didn't really ever hear you say it was a bad engine. Yours was the first 5.0 swapped TC I'd ever seen, so I remember always giving you shiznit about it.

I really HATE the 2.3 !!

Reply #121 – January 28, 2008, 03:59:50 PM

Quote from: oldraven;200488

Nah. I didn't really ever hear you say it was a bad engine. Yours was the first 5.0 swapped TC I'd ever seen, so I remember always giving you shiznit about it.

If the Sport had received the virtues of a TC, I wouldn't have had to make the swap... AFAIC, my car is the Sport Ford should have built...OK it's a modified Sport that should have been built...

Still I've been told I should have modded a Sport... Screw 'em, for me it was far easier to swap just engine, transmission(which would have been necessary anyway) and a little wiring... No way I wanted to mess with brakes, rear end and add other TC tpuppiess to a Sport... Had a rust free '87, junked it...

I really HATE the 2.3 !!

Reply #122 – January 28, 2008, 04:30:59 PM

Quote from: Aerobird Motorsports;200469

As for the "not the 2.3T's fault" comment, sorry, but a lot of it is. It's called "basic design principle". If the engineers make a fundamental mistake/design flaw, it stays with the engine until it's fixed by the factory (think PI 4.6's vs. non-PI ones) or by the aftermarket.

while the 2.3 is not perfect, i cannot agree with this. if the lima had so many basic design flaws the same issues would be consistent through out the line, including all the +200K mile n/a 2.3s runnin around in rangers. granted they arent pushin any power, but a design flaw is a design flaw. see below:

Quote from: TurboCoupe50

They had serious problems the first few years, common to bust #1 piston and wipe camshafts... By the time the TC's debuted some 10 years, late most of the issues had been resolved...

Quote from: Aerobird Motorsports

Modifications:
...
ported stock turbo iron head
...
ported stock aluminum upper and lower intakes
...
ported E6 exhaust manifold
...
SC50R (.60 A/R 50-trim compressor, .63 A/R 60-trim Stage III turbine
...
stock air-to-air intercooler
...
rebuilt 35# fuel injectors
...
fuel-rail pressure gauge

Quote from: Aerobird Motorsports;200247

I blew a lot of parts, and a good portion of them weren't my fault. But when you shove 25psi down any engine's throat stuff is going to break!

Quote from: Aerobird Motorsports;200469

My tune was pretty conservative (and pretty good for no dyno time).

i also must disagree with the use of this combo as an example of the reliability, or lack thereof, of a 2.3T
how could you tell it was conservative w/o a WB, or even a FP gauge in the cabin, to look at? honestly it sounds like a recipe for lean to me.
im not tryin to pick you apart personally, but the combination of parts and that level of boost just does not seem to add up to anything good.

I really HATE the 2.3 !!

Reply #123 – January 28, 2008, 04:56:01 PM

I thought he had upgraded the injectors a few months before the sale?

I really HATE the 2.3 !!

Reply #124 – January 28, 2008, 05:00:30 PM

that might be so, i pulled that mods list from the sale ad. i would still be concerned, even with larger injectors, that the stock PCM wouldnt be up to the task of keepin everything happy from idle to redline and all points in between.

I really HATE the 2.3 !!

Reply #125 – January 28, 2008, 05:39:04 PM

Quote from: Aerobird Motorsports;200394

Sorry, but I call BS on that. The GTO runs 13.09 DEAD STOCK. DR's make 12.7's, "mild mods" have hit 11's. Don't even remotely think you're in that league. You *might* stand a chance in a 3rd gear pull at highway speeds against a 200K mile stock LS1 auto, but I'd still bet against you. Considering you haven't even hit bottom 14's yet and EVERY LS1 is at most high-13's stock! Look man I respect you and your car, but don't throw BS onto the field, you will be called on it.

Quote from: 1WLD BRD;200431

either way there is no chance a TC will run with ANYTHING with an LS1 Hell, My bird would walk stock fox stangs, but even I knew I didn't stand a chance against somthing with an LS1... They have handling AND power... TC has handling... I want video proof...

Call me on it all you'd like. Track numbers mean absolutely nothing on the street. Anyone who races on the street would know that. Ive put a fender on a Saleen S281, and had a fender put on my by a 2005 GTO. He had a throttle body, cold air, MAF, and lers. It was about 45* that night, I was running 24psi of boost through the SC50, and the car was running great.

Also Mike, how do you get 11's out of mild mods? Ive put many hours in a shop called F-body Central here in Maryland. Full bolt on cars go mod-high 11's, and when I say full bolt on, I mean everything other than heads and cam.

Quote from: 1WLD_BRD

Personally, I dont know where you think Chris has thousands into his car... He was VERY smart, and patient with his money and found KILLER deals on the stuff... As I said, he has about the same amount in his car NOW as you do in yours...

I doubt it. I had just about 5K in my gray car TOTAL. That includes the turbo, header, exhaust, wheels, tires, brakes, 5-lug, clutch, short throw, EVERYTHING other than the CD changer, pillar pod, and other trivial items. This car doesn't half the entire setup from the gray car, nor will it get all the of brake mods and whatnot. The Red bird in the signature will be more of the animal, since thats getting the suspension, brakes, and a mild 5.0 in it. Even though this thread makes me disgusted to have a 5.0 on a stand.

I really HATE the 2.3 !!

Reply #126 – January 28, 2008, 05:43:11 PM

I upgraded the injectors to 46#'s after it went 14's. Then when the head kept letting go I threw in a spare on with the stock ranger cam and swapped the 35#s back on and sold it.

I was using my car as an example of "crossing the line". My problems didn't surface until the larger injectors and what not. I went from a reliable, fun-to-drive car, to a total basket case in a single round of mods. The point I was trying to make is, if I had left well enough alone and been happy with the stockish combo I'd probably still have the car because it was so much fun.

And Gumby, you DO hear about the design flaw problems! How many threads are constantly being made about dizzy gears/auxiliary shafts? Slider cams wiping lobes? PIP/TFI systems pooping out? Heads cracking? E3's cracking? Pistons breaking? The PVC system failing? Fuel rails leaking? Granted there's going to be more as time marches on and these cars get more miles, but a design flaw is a design flaw. AMC V8's have to run an internal oil line to keep from starving the rear lifters. We also have to run sleeves in the integral oil pump (because steel gears on an aluminum housing = accelerated wear and poor oil pressure). It's just a design flaw that has to be overcome.

I really HATE the 2.3 !!

Reply #127 – January 28, 2008, 05:45:31 PM

Quote

Even though this thread makes me disgusted to have a 5.0 on a stand.

Ask Eric how to do up a 3.8:hick:

I really HATE the 2.3 !!

Reply #128 – January 28, 2008, 05:46:14 PM

Heads and a cam ARE "mild bolt ons" for an LS1. If you don't have L92/LS2/LS6/LS3 heads on at the very least, you're not trying. L92's outflow stock LS1's by a huge shot and are under $500.

Take a gander at the LS1GTO ET lists, especially the "cam only" class and tell me what you see. This is 2008 man, not 1998. LSx motors have come so far it's not even funny.

I really HATE the 2.3 !!

Reply #129 – January 28, 2008, 05:47:01 PM

Quote from: Aerobird Motorsports;200520

I was using my car as an example of "crossing the line". My problems didn't surface until the larger injectors and what not. I went from a reliable, fun-to-drive car, to a total basket case in a single round of mods. The point I was trying to make is, if I had left well enough alone and been happy with the stockish combo I'd probably still have the car because it was so much fun.

and the point of my line of questions was to find out if it was properly tuned after it "crossed the line."

IMO the stock PCM isnt gonna be happy with that combo, and w/o at least a WBO2 there is less chance on knowing that.

I really HATE the 2.3 !!

Reply #130 – January 28, 2008, 05:51:49 PM

That's the point. At the cost of getting a 2.3T "right" over that line, you can have a 5.0 going 2 seconds faster. That's why I said "screw this" and sold it.

I really HATE the 2.3 !!

Reply #131 – January 28, 2008, 06:18:29 PM

Quote from: Aerobird Motorsports;200526

That's the point. At the cost of getting a 2.3T "right" over that line, you can have a 5.0 going 2 seconds faster. That's why I said "screw this" and sold it.

Bah.

I really HATE the 2.3 !!

Reply #132 – January 28, 2008, 06:27:20 PM

Quote from: Aerobird Motorsports;200523

Heads and a cam ARE "mild bolt ons" for an LS1. If you don't have L92/LS2/LS6/LS3 heads on at the very least, you're not trying. L92's outflow stock LS1's by a huge shot and are under $500.

Take a gander at the LS1GTO ET lists, especially the "cam only" class and tell me what you see. This is 2008 man, not 1998. LSx motors have come so far it's not even funny.

Explain to me how heads and cam are considered mild? Heads and cam is what makes the engine what it is! Any engine. Where is the power? Heads and cam. Those are not considered mild mods because youre taking the engine down to a shortblock!

Look man, I can tell you've done your homework, but just because you can find heads for under 500 bucks doesn't make them a "mild" bolt on. You can say a cam in a 2.3L is mild, because hell, I can do a cam in 1.5 hours without rushing, and getting it timed in. I still don't consider it mild. Thats what changes the entire characteristics of an engine.

Thats like saying running on a treadmill is mild weight loss, along with liposuction. Liposuction takes a few hours, so it's pretty mild, right?

I really HATE the 2.3 !!

Reply #133 – January 28, 2008, 06:39:21 PM

The same way any 4.6 not taken to "PI" status is considered not even worth playing with. Updating to the latest factory parts (swapping on an E6, IC, square intake, big VAM, 35#'s, ranger roller, etc) is considered "mild" mods (if even mods at all).

I really HATE the 2.3 !!

Reply #134 – January 28, 2008, 06:58:19 PM

Unfortunately, whatever is considered "mild" will vary from person to person. But the point still stands that if you want THE MOST straight line speed for your dollar, a 5.0, LSx, SBC, 351, etc will out run a 4 cylinder any day. That's just how it is.