MK8 and mass air sensor tied to an a9p eec May 03, 2018, 04:10:32 PM why is it that this cant be done?i was under the impression that if you got matching injectors and sensor, you can run them on our a9L/a9p eec's?we harvested some mk8 injectors and mass air sensors but apparently this is a no go? when tied to the MA eec's we use? Quote Selected
MK8 and mass air sensor tied to an a9p eec Reply #1 – May 03, 2018, 04:56:44 PM Think of it the same way you would any other sensor and actuator controlled by a PLC. Your PLC is programed to work with specific instruction (output) based on specific input. Now change the sensor with one of different characteristics paired with an actuator again with different operating characteristics.......things aren't going to work well anymore until you alter your program to match the equipment.Saying that... matching injectors and MAF is usually talking about calibrated Maf to use larger injectors yet maintain the stock program. Even then the MAF has to be manufactured to represent the data specific to a particular ECU. If you have the tools for self tuning......none of this matters. Simply change the program to match your equipment.John Quote Selected
MK8 and mass air sensor tied to an a9p eec Reply #2 – May 03, 2018, 07:26:40 PM My understanding is. The ECU is programmed to injectors and MAF. Ive read that the calibrated mafs aren't the "best" option. Best is to tune the ECU to tell it what injector size is and the airflow table of the MAF. There was talk about a calibrated maf causing issues with different levels of engine load etc. It is still over my head, but I'm learning. That said, I've seen lots of guys running different mafs and seeming OK? I have a different maf from Vinnie I'm still waiting to install and try. Quote Selected
MK8 and mass air sensor tied to an a9p eec Reply #3 – May 03, 2018, 07:52:05 PM Calibrated MAFs have their place...... ideally for forced induction where you need to measure airflow beyond the clip limit of the ECU. It's old school but does work for large injectors without tuning and yes depending on how large the increase.....it will drop you down in the load cells. It's usually manageable. Yes the ECU dictates the MAF. You can put whatever MAF you like in your car......if it's close the adaptive strategy will correct for closed loop conditions but you risk poor running or damage for WOT Openloop conditions. So I agree tuning is best for anything other than stock components.John Quote Selected
MK8 and mass air sensor tied to an a9p eec Reply #4 – May 03, 2018, 08:24:41 PM No Ford factory MAF is calibrated to an injector size. When Ford programs the factory computer it puts in the injector information (size, etc) and the transfer function of the MAF. An aftermarket calibrated MAF skews the MAF transfer function to output less at a given air flow than the factory MAF. For example an aftermarket calibrated MAF for 24lb injectors on an A9P will output 19/24 amount of voltage at the same flow rate as the stock MAF. This allows 24lb injectors to be used in an application that originally came with 19lb injectors.Now you have two options in your case:1. Spend ~$500 on a chip and tune. The tuner will input your injector size and the Mark VIII MAF transfer function into the A9L/A9P. 2. Buy an aftermarket calibrated MAF for an 86-93 5.0 Mustang with 24lb injectors for ~$200-300.These are your only two options. If you plug the Mark VIII MAF into the harness with an untuned A9L/A9P IT WILL NOT WORK. THE CAR WILL RUN LIKE shiznit. Got it? Quote Selected
MK8 and mass air sensor tied to an a9p eec Reply #5 – May 04, 2018, 07:48:49 AM yes. got this on ebay, from this sellerhe told me he shiipped mine out to me quickly and it was gone, when i asked if he had the pn.https://www.ebay.com/itm/87-04-FORD-5-0-4-6-5-4-MUSTANG-GT-COBRA-MASS-AIR-FLOW-SENSOR-MAF-METER-24-lb-OEM/362309129946?hash=item545b4e96da:g:P0YAAOSwuWha6gb-&vxp=mtrI will get an assortment over the next couple weeks to "see" which MAF feels better against the eec and this 331 with 24# inj.its nice to have options.,, so,,, do i have bad news and this maf "wont work"??????? Quote Selected
MK8 and mass air sensor tied to an a9p eec Reply #6 – May 04, 2018, 11:10:40 AM Yup.....still going to be an issue......it looks like a stock take off meaning calibration is in the matching ECU not the meter. Even if that meter itself is calibrated for 24# it will be based on a newer ECU. Either way it will require tuning to work well for your application.Some food for thought if you are trying to avoid tuning...... You have increased displacement moving your VE ~9% need for more fuel and you have increased injectors ~26%, therefore the hypothetical fuel error is ~17% too rich. If you end up getting a calibrated Maf for 24# injectors......you will hypothetically change that fuel error to ~9% too lean. Keep in mind I aa calculating based on equipment intended for the GUFx family of ECUs. As you can see no matter what you decide it will never be right without a tune.John Quote Selected
MK8 and mass air sensor tied to an a9p eec Reply #7 – May 04, 2018, 12:15:05 PM so the technical jargin i am looking for on a maf is the word "calibrated" ?304 772 3411we tried that maf i just got today,, plugged it into my son's a9p 306,,, it sux.mason has a working just fine 306 we built with an a9p and a no longer available 24# "PMAS" sensor.it was plug and play,, works fine.we pluged this ebay one on his car and it fails.so.. again,,, is it that i need to buy a "calibrated" maf? Quote Selected
MK8 and mass air sensor tied to an a9p eec Reply #8 – May 04, 2018, 01:02:14 PM my oldest son has his bird in today, we have this maf sensor pictured installed on his 306 with an a9p and MK8 injectors,, works great.,, was plug and play.my youngest son has a 030 over 302 base 331 stroker and we plan on using an a9l or a9p or cw3 eec.we plugged in the maf i just got off ebay into my son's tbird and it sux like predicted.is this maf considered a "calibrated" maf? Quote Selected
MK8 and mass air sensor tied to an a9p eec Reply #9 – May 04, 2018, 01:18:27 PM Hey Scott..... I got your PM. I can call later this evening after work...... In the meantime.....Yes you need a "calibrated Maf" more specifically it must be for 89-93 Mustang and only if tuning is not an option.Take a look at Pro-M their calibrations are usually spot on and comparable to the PMAS. For your 331 in spite of what people say on the web..... I would also consider the C&L with interchangeable sample tubes so you can experiment without having to buy a new meter. I use a PMAS myself but have tuned many C&L meters without issue.Like I said earlier.....I feel regardless of what you do..... A tune is going to make the difference. You don't have to spend a ton of money, you can always take it in and just have the MAF dialed in or look into the Moates or Tweecer offerings if you want to put the money to better use.John Quote Selected
MK8 and mass air sensor tied to an a9p eec Reply #10 – May 04, 2018, 04:11:16 PM wow,, found the company that made our other PMAS from the picture above,,,, up in ohio.here is the equal rendition to their plug and play no tuning required mass air sensor..http://www.pmas-maf.com/product/mh80b-24-80mm-housing-w-tuned-maf-24lb-injectors-black/105$ Quote Selected
MK8 and mass air sensor tied to an a9p eec Reply #11 – May 04, 2018, 04:23:32 PM I had the PMAS one you linked. It did not want to play nice without a tune.This is plug and play with a stock airbox: https://lmr.com/item/PMA-12579AE/1989-93-Mustang-50L-75Mm-Black-Pro-M-Mass-Air-Meter-For-24LbAs a FYI 24lb injectors are probably small for a 331 (even though you are using GT40 heads). My 306 ended up needing 30lb injectors as it was running low on fuel above 5200rpm. The 24lb injectors couldn't keep up. Quote Selected
MK8 and mass air sensor tied to an a9p eec Reply #12 – May 04, 2018, 07:42:10 PM Hey Scott.... It looks like C&L are out of business. I assume the ones on American Muscle are china clones and it appears MAC is making something similar. Either way you would still need the stock electronics from an 89-93 gt/lx Mustang.https://www.shop.macperformance.com/Ford-Mustang-50L-V8-1986-1993-73mm-Mass-Air-Meter-MA7386.htmhttps://www.americanmuscle.com/cnl-73maf-8693gt.htmlJohn Quote Selected
MK8 and mass air sensor tied to an a9p eec Reply #13 – May 05, 2018, 09:19:08 AM Quote from: thunderjet302;465544As a FYI 24lb injectors are probably small for a 331 (even though you are using GT40 heads). My 306 ended up needing 30lb injectors as it was running low on fuel above 5200rpm. The 24lb injectors couldn't keep up.wha???24's too small for a 306?that means 24's are wayyyyy to small for me yet summit / others said they will work fairly spot on with my small ho cam???based on what you have experienced, that means i need bigger than 30lb injectors,,stock 302 bird 14# injector, for each cylinder of 37.75cu in of displacement = about .37lb of fuel per cu in.your 306 with 24lb inj = .675lb per cubeyou upgraded to 30lb inj, thats about .78lb per cubsince i am a .030 over 331, for easy math thats about a 350cu in,,,, and if i use .675 per cube,,, thats about 30# injector need??was your maf plug and play or did you tune?or did you let the eec learn? Quote Selected
MK8 and mass air sensor tied to an a9p eec Reply #14 – May 05, 2018, 09:20:52 AM Quote from: Skunk;465549Hey Scott.... It looks like C&L are out of business. I assume the ones on American Muscle are china clones and it appears MAC is making something similar. Either way you would still need the stock electronics from an 89-93 gt/lx Mustang.https://www.shop.macperformance.com/Ford-Mustang-50L-V8-1986-1993-73mm-Mass-Air-Meter-MA7386.htmhttps://www.americanmuscle.com/cnl-73maf-8693gt.htmlJohnwhen you say stock electronics,, you mean the eec ,, correct? Quote Selected
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