MK8 and mass air sensor tied to an a9p eec Reply #30 – May 07, 2018, 03:43:00 PM So my 306 made 290ish rwhp / 310ish ft-lbs of torque (over ten years ago) and was out of fuel with a Pro-M 75mm Bullett MAF and 24 lb/hr Motorsport injectors. The car was tuned on a Mustang Dyno with a SCT switch chip. Installed a 2001 Mustang GT MAF and 42 lb/hr injectors that weekend and went back to the tuner and the car made 310ish rwhp / 330ish ft-lbs of torque. The Mustang MAF was an 80mm unit and my tuner had the transfer function for all of the Ford stock MAF's so that is why we went with that one.Moral of the story here is that 30 lb/hr injectors would have worked just fine but I had a buddy with the 42's and got them cheap. Since the upgrade to the 331 it was a good choice as that little beast wanted the fuel. You really should bite the bullet and just get the car tuned as it will run better and make better power. This will also translate into longevity and general joy in driving the car. Quote Selected
MK8 and mass air sensor tied to an a9p eec Reply #31 – May 08, 2018, 07:17:38 AM Quote from: Aerocoupe;465602You really should bite the bullet and just get the car tuned as it will run better and make better power. This will also translate into longevity and general joy in driving the car.You don't even want to know what a calibrated MAF does to your timing advance, especially added to the fact that you have a 331 and not a 302. The engine displacement is legitimately part of the tune; it's in there, in CID, and changing it causes the EEC to curve the timing data from the spark tables differently. The timing tables need to be scaled for your heads if they're not E7's (My P heads required 6 additional degrees most of the way across the tables). With 11:1 on P's and domes (dumb) I was getting spark knock with 93 gas on hot days with just a calibrated MAF, which is part of the reason I ditched it and decided to just sack up and tune. You've got a stroker now, your days of plug and play engine management are over. Quote Selected
MK8 and mass air sensor tied to an a9p eec Reply #32 – May 08, 2018, 10:29:42 AM these are my heads....yes i am running shorty stainless headers.heads are from a member here1969 4v casting with April 29th 1972 foundry date.302 / 71-74 / D1TZ-A,D2OE-BA / 58.2 / 1.78/1.45 upgrades are :~Ferrea 6000 valves with 1.94 Intake & 1.6 exhaust with bronze guides~approc 54CC which should be as discussed around 10:1 compression ~Isky adjustable guide plates~Cnc ported by Power Heads~beehive springs that came to about 115lbs of seat pres per the machine shop~3/8'' studded Quote Selected
MK8 and mass air sensor tied to an a9p eec Reply #33 – May 08, 2018, 11:05:30 AM thanks mike and all for the bluntness,,, i am ok with it.this will not be my car to own,, it goes to my youngest son.is there a way i can pay someone here to tune me?i cant see investing into the support equipment / software and self paced education time i cant make room for right now,,i am torn now between C&L and Pro-M.Several calls to suppliers say my head/strocker combo is right dead on for 24# injectors as well.. yet the peps i trust here say 30's are needed.Pro-m builds custom to my engine build,,,@250$ to buy the maf sys including them calibrating to my setup.,, then it should work fine on our a9L or a9pc&L gives me a housing and i can buy a couple tubes to play around with yet i am still kinda "guessing" - @ 140$ for housing, then i buy the stang maf,, then assemble then experiment till i "feel" or "think" it might be right... Quote Selected
MK8 and mass air sensor tied to an a9p eec Reply #34 – May 08, 2018, 12:56:54 PM People who say 24lb injectors are fine are saying that they'll work because they are figuring 100% duty cycle on the injector at WOT. Great way to limit fuel in an emergency and damage the engine. I'd rather run a 30lb injector at 75-85% duty cycle at WOT and have capacity than running a 24lb injector wide open, but that's just me. Trying not to pop a head gasket or put a hole in a piston is my goal Also make sure you have enough fuel pump. 190lph minimum in your case. Quote Selected
MK8 and mass air sensor tied to an a9p eec Reply #35 – May 08, 2018, 01:06:46 PM Those heads are NOT going to play with a stock tune and a calibrated MAF. There are lots of outfits that will build you a tune for your combination and burn it to a J3 port module (a "chip") for you. It won't be dyno tuned, but some of these guys have MASSIVE databases of component profiles and base tunes and it would still be safer than a stock tune and a calibrated MAF. Quote Selected
MK8 and mass air sensor tied to an a9p eec Reply #36 – May 08, 2018, 01:08:07 PM You've done all this work so far, it would be lousy for it to get running and end up detonating holes through the pistons. Quote Selected
MK8 and mass air sensor tied to an a9p eec Reply #37 – May 08, 2018, 01:12:30 PM Quote from: TheFoeYouKnow;465631You've done all this work so far, it would be lousy for it to get running and end up detonating holes through the pistons.yup,,suggestions on "who" for chip/tune/maf?if you simply look at my zip code,, this topic is way over the heads of my demographics...scott394 772 3411id rather pay someone here for this type of service though... Quote Selected
MK8 and mass air sensor tied to an a9p eec Reply #38 – May 08, 2018, 02:10:07 PM Quote from: jcassity;465632yup,,suggestions on "who" for chip/tune/maf?if you simply look at my zip code,, this topic is way over the heads of my demographics...scott394 772 3411id rather pay someone here for this type of service though...Scott the problem with this.....you either need someone close to go hands on OR you still need to buy the hardware to be able to provide data logs so an educated guess can be made. I've tuned several cars with nothing more than data logs provided.....I'm not a big fan of doing this because I have no idea how well it worked out since most people are happy it's running.While a tune is highly recommended for all the reasons stated in this thread......it's not a must. You just have to keep in mind you will be running with more spark advance so you may have set your initial timing lower. The only thing you really can't control is the open loop load triggered threshold. The calibrated MAF will hold you in closed loop longer when you actually want enrichment which means you need to push your foot to the floor to trigger it . Problem with this is you get thrown into WOT timing as well.If Pro-M can guarantee that they will provide a meter that is calibrated to your displacement, injector size and the ECU ...... I would go that direction regardless of tune or no tune. Keep in mind the hardware for tuning costs about the same money then you can use the MAF you have. This also opens the door to get help dialing it in.John Quote Selected
MK8 and mass air sensor tied to an a9p eec Reply #39 – May 08, 2018, 07:48:37 PM excluding the costs of a maf and maf housing,,,how much do i spend on the ability to tune?how much are the daughter boards ,, ie- what people call the "chips"i have a laptop with win7,, not sure how much i need to invest into this I did not call Pro-M today,, as i got side tracked on the primary and hunting new work opportunities,,, small business and all. Quote Selected
MK8 and mass air sensor tied to an a9p eec Reply #40 – May 08, 2018, 08:08:10 PM and, is tweecer a good option>? Quote Selected
MK8 and mass air sensor tied to an a9p eec Reply #41 – May 08, 2018, 08:33:55 PM Well, I use a Moates Quarterhorse to tune, It's an emulator, not a chip, so it has a battery for if the car loses power, it's $250, and for software, I use Tunerpro RT, which is free if you can wait 10 seconds when you open the software. BIN files (the tune) for the stock tune you start from are free, as are the XDF files (definitions, basically defines what each section of the tune, which is in HEX, means), and ADX files (datastream definitions, so you can monitor data in real time). I've learned around a few forums and write up sites such as here, and here. Their knowledge is basically free. In total, besides MAF conversion EEC and parts, for me, it was $250 and some hours of self education mixed with on and off periods of trial and error. If you get a good base tune that runs good, starts good, and makes good power, you may still want to seek out a tuner who can polish up your tune (yet to do for me) either by driving, or on a dyno. Once you've got a good polished tune, you should make a backup of it (maybe in the cloud) and get a more permanent chip that stores the tune in non-volatile memory. The virtue of the QH, for me, is that I can tweak and make changes live (while the engine is running).I have an A9P, and I run an A9L based tune, so I can datastream better. Quote Selected
MK8 and mass air sensor tied to an a9p eec Reply #42 – May 08, 2018, 08:40:15 PM what hardware are you using to interface to the eec with?i understand the emulator part,, you have to have something hardware tied to the eec,, or something bluetooth ish etc. Quote Selected
MK8 and mass air sensor tied to an a9p eec Reply #43 – May 08, 2018, 08:55:28 PM As stated above the Quaterhorse is an excellent option. I use both a Tweecer RT and a Quarterhorse....to be honest.....I prefer the Tweecer for permanent install and easy switching between tunes. It's down fall is the proprietary file type and provided software is lacking. I made the switch years ago to Binary Editor so I could use one software for everything. I began my chip burning days with TunerPro and still use it on occasion but it' can be intimating for a beginner.The only other hardware you need to price out is a wideband......it's crucial for setting WOT fuel. The Quaterhorse and the Tweecer do the same thing. They are your interface that stays attached to the ECU with a USB coming out for your laptop. You load your tune and goJohn Quote Selected
MK8 and mass air sensor tied to an a9p eec Reply #44 – May 09, 2018, 02:18:00 AM This is the Moates Quarterhorse. It connects to the EEC at the J3 port (under the rubber cover at the opposite end as the 60-pin), and to your laptop by USB. Unlike TwEECer, it ends up completely inside the EEC. This is a picture of the initial hardware release, subsequent revisions have a socketed CR2032 battery as might be found on a PC motherboard as the RTC battery. Quote Selected
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