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88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #195 –
Quote from: TOM Renzo;420560
Thunder jet how thick was the shim you used?? And i am just curious why you would shim a pedestal if FORD says PRE LOAD can be as high as .080. Shimming the stands changes  the geometry did you check the contact area. Just a question!!

Off the top of my head I'm not sure but the Ford kit has both thick and thin shims that reduce preload by .030 (thin) and .060 (thick). I had to use a shim under each rocker because with stock length pushrods the rocker wasn't able to be torqued to 20 ft/lbs in under 1 turn. The shim kit allows the user to make the pedestal slightly taller, allowing the rocker to work with the stock length pushrods. The shims reduce the lifter preload. These instructions probably explain it better: http://cranecams.com/uploads/instructions/453e_.pdf
88 Thunderbird LX: 306, Edelbrock Performer heads, Comp 266HR cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, bunch of other stuff.

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #196 –
I got that and i think .030 is a great place for them to be. As i set all my LS engines @ 1/2 turn as well.Which comes to something like .050 And just about every other engine i build. Just wanted to chat with you about it thanks. I do it with push rod length to keep the geometry correct. But your method is fine and a shim @or around .050 is neglible with respect to geometry. Thanks Again.
I spend money I don't have, To build  cars I don't need, To impress people I don't know

HAVE YOU DRIVEN A FORD LATELY!!

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #197 –
hey tom, i posted a thread "someonen pls call me",, but stopped posting to that one.
THat was the day i could not get oil to the top.
The machine shop recommended i suck it up and drop it in , the lifters will eventually pump up.
i dropped the motor in because its my fault , i should have not listened to him.
I ran the engine for i guess around 30 or 40 seconds at about 2800 to 3k rpm.,, no oil up top.
i pulled it out and kept asking questions, digging into the motor then finally found the issue.
I was very close to dropping the motor in again when i started hearing folks saying "those lifters may need a little longer to pump up".
i decided to dig in deeper,
so,, thats what i meant earlier.

as for shims, i have concluded i dont need any after taking a few measurements.
my pushrod uses up .084 of the lifter while the lifter is on the base circle and rocker torqued.
I watched the lifter spring fight the valve spring while rotating the crank and running a drill on the oil pump.
I reach torque at 1/3rd of a turn on my torque wrench.
i should be ok,, i thought so because these are stock ratio 1.6's, and the heads were milled .020.

re-assembled everything yesterday and dropped the motor in the bay, today hope to start.

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #198 –
Quote from: thunderjet302;420562
Off the top of my head I'm not sure but the Ford kit has both thick and thin shims that reduce preload by .030 (thin) and .060 (thick). I had to use a shim under each rocker because with stock length pushrods the rocker wasn't able to be torqued to 20 ft/lbs in under 1 turn. f[/url]


i was under some impression (with your lifters on the base circle) that you want to hit your torque in less than 3/4 to less than 1/2 turn from where the pedastal is snug to the floor.

if you go deeper, your taking away from your pumping action of your full capability of the spring in the lifter., ie- reducing its overall final installed height.

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #199 –
Quote from: TOM Renzo;420565
I got that and i think .030 is a great place for them to be. As i set all my LS engines @ 1/2 turn as well.Which comes to something like .050 And just about every other engine i build. Just wanted to chat with you about it thanks. I do it with push rod length to keep the geometry correct. But your method is fine and a shim @or around .050 is neglible with respect to geometry. Thanks Again.


No problem. I thought the link would explain it better than I could. As long as you use the shims in the kit you don't chang the rocker geometry. You can use at the most one thick and one thin shim per rocker. Any more and the geometry is screwed up. I tried my setup with no shims and got more than 1turn to get 20 ft/lbs. It ended up being around .080 lifter preload. With a thin shim I got about 1 turn to hit 20 ft/lbs. That was the high side of the spec .060 inch of lifter preload. With the thick shim I got 1/2 turn to hit 20 ft/lbs which gave me .030 inch of lifter preload which I think is the best amount. The reason I need a thick shim was because I have non stock heads, cam, and head gaskets which ended up being slightly shorter than stock. I used the shims because they allowed proper lifter preload without changing geometry. The other option would have been to get 6.20 inch pushrods to replace the stock 6.27 inch pushrods. I could have ordered the heads I have with stud mount rockers but I ordered the pedestal mount heads because I already had pedestal mount rockers from the gt40 heads I was running before.
88 Thunderbird LX: 306, Edelbrock Performer heads, Comp 266HR cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, bunch of other stuff.

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #200 –
Quote from: jcassity;420576
i was under some impression (with your lifters on the base circle) that you want to hit your torque in less than 3/4 to less than 1/2 turn from where the pedastal is snug to the floor.

if you go deeper, your taking away from your pumping action of your full capability of the spring in the lifter., ie- reducing its overall final installed height.

You're right. You want to hit the torque spec in about 1/2 turn with roller rockers at zero lash. If you can do that without shims you're good to go.
88 Thunderbird LX: 306, Edelbrock Performer heads, Comp 266HR cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, bunch of other stuff.

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #201 –
Sounds good thunder you have a good understanding of the PRE-LOAD. On other sites it takes me 3 pages to explain it to some guys. Remember push rod length is push rod length plain and simple. BUT!!! Ford says a complete turn or .120 is max. personally i do not go that far. Thanks!!
I spend money I don't have, To build  cars I don't need, To impress people I don't know

HAVE YOU DRIVEN A FORD LATELY!!

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #202 –
well,
had the same issue with timing and overall running, then about time to knock off, i kinda refused and kept pokin around,,,
Pulling my hair out second guessing myself here and there, adjust the timing this way a tooth then that way a tooth, verifiying with my timing light ect...

Finally..............
i found where my son had apparenltly man handled the TPS connector and the black wire was barely hanging into the green rubber boot on the back.
I jumpered past the connector , dialed tdc once again then she started up.
all is well,,,, and then the power steering hose blew right off the pump housing out of its fitting.
oh joy!

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #203 –
how does she run?

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #204 –
Thats good have a great day Jay. Now you can relax!!!
I spend money I don't have, To build  cars I don't need, To impress people I don't know

HAVE YOU DRIVEN A FORD LATELY!!

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #205 –
Quote from: beast50;420610
how does she run?


havent driven it yet, but it sounds like a different car totally, i need to solve two remaining items
-fix the blown power steering pump hose, this is a **HELL** connection down on the rack if i replace the hose.,, looking for opinons here,, can i flair / double flair?
-plug off the smog pipe fitting which i will simply rig something up.

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #206 –
question,,
-i have two 02 sensors which have no bungs to attach to down on the headers.
-my son can handle getting this rectified later.


#1
Can i run the car with the o2 sensors tied back somewhere?  Why in the hell do they get so friggin how to the touch? they are currently zip tied to the hvac hose but since i felt them getting really hot, i worry about them burning something. are these things little heaters or what,,?
do i have any substantial disadvantages by sparing back the 02's like this because i really dont need to deal with this part right now...need to get the car out of the bay and my youngest boys car in to start that project.

a little background,, Mason my oldest boy said not to put any of the smog plumbing back on so the passanger side is minus the emissions tubing and with an opening that needs plugged on the passanger exhaust pipe.  He's been short belted for almost two years now.
I am recommending he keep all the smog pipes because one day he may have a stringent inspection which will require the parts to remain on the car.
I recommended he and I put the smog plumbing back on the car but he did not want to so i will toss it all in the trunk , its up to him to deal with when he gets a Virginia inspection,, currently he is a wv resident but i feel his clock is ticking and  hes gonna have to move there permanent.

#2
I now have GT40 heads with no pipe along the rear of the heads,, i guess this is internal EGR.  When running the motor, i see no EGR movement at all and would like to know if there is something i need to worry about or let it just sit there not moving and call it good.  with external EGR on the old heads, the egr moved ,,im sure now i am dumping an egr code,,, opinions?

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #207 –
Quote from: TOM Renzo;420614
Thats good have a great day Jay. Now you can relax!!!


not exactly, if the power steering hose thing is not solved, i gotta raise the motor on one side, drop the rack,,, ect ect ect..

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #208 –
You probably WON'T see the EGR work at idle.  Just saying.  The O2's get hot because they each have a heater to get them hot and reading faster.  As for placement, they're not in the headers, they'll mount in the h-pipe directly below.

88 sport rebuild , need advice

Reply #209 –
this car has separate dual 2'' exhaust..no provision for o2's

either way, can i have them flopping in the wind so to speak without any performance problems?  i know i need to have them connected up and they are.