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Topic: Hi beam and Lo beam question (Read 7652 times) previous topic - next topic

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #105 –
lets do 5pin relays,, then it would be absolutly unquestionably perfect in every way!!!

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #106 –
The mod on my car can't be easily backed out of so I'm going to leave it. I see what you're talking about now, but I don't see it causing any kind of problem.  The reason it didn't stand out with my light is that by the time the manual headlamps were on, the manual park lamps were also on and I wasn't testing K2 anymore.  I guess I misunderstood what you were trying to explain.  Regardless, after the mod this backfeed can not be created.
For the 5 pin relays, I wasn't wrong about the design, but I was wrong about what is already there, they're not standard sockets. We'd have to lop off the whole connector and add standard Bosch type sockets and relays. Not that hard to do, but it's more work.  I've got relays and relay holders ready to go as soon as ambition shows up to the party.

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #107 –
I forget specifically where the diodes came from, except that it would have been the underhood fuse box of a newer Ford.  I'll keep my eyes open next few days for a vehicle that uses them. Older ones are bigger and have one of the terminals rotated 90 degrees.

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #109 –
agreed , after the diode mod, its moot.

I am going to move forward again into your mod and post a few pics.

before you untangled the drawing and redrew it, the back feed i was seeing was one of the many things i wanted to discuss but i think at this point its all in the open now, we've got a good handle on it.  i have to wonder though that on a car without mods, is the path of power going two parallel paths adding more resistance to the circuit before it hits the headlamps,, i think yes.

your design is as i see it consisting of just the inline diodes so removing the diode(s), replacing with a jumper wire and plugging back in the oem red/yellows & browns would put you back into original condition.

i looked over your pics,,,NICE WORK! 

Trinom,==
 i wam holding out just a tad longer because i have a feeling (just a gut feeling) that perhaps the diodes can be placed up at the amplifier instead.
Due to the back feed illustration i show above "when there is no mod and under normal cirspoogestances" , this would lend heavily to re-thinking how to place the second diode. 
I am going to dig in a little more to understand "why exactly" one diode "does not work when it is placed on the relay output of the amplifier.  This is bugging me, probably more than you...LOL.

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #110 –
@J, once you've completed and verified the mod in a permanent type installation, I say we move the mod into the "Electrical Chatter" section where I understand electrical mods belong. There seems to be a little less movement there, which makes me think that it wouldn't get pushed down out of site quickly like it will in general electrical.

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #111 –
remaining open issue,,,,,,
is it still "TRUE" that if the first relay were to fail, you would not have any fail safe headlamps to get you home?  I think this is true and a 5pin relay on k1 is prudent....  k1 would have to be a parallel hot in accy feeding pin 30 and a strap on the red/yellow from 87 and 87A.  A 5pin relay would insure headlamp power "if" the coil failed.
If the contacts failed, on the NO side, you "might" still have headlamp capabilty from pins 30 to 87a. 

right now you dont have headlamps at all if there is a malfunction with the relay,, this again is a risk to manage and / or accept.

As with anything, we cant plan for redunduncy based on every imaginable situation but the original intent of the headlamp primary input to the main light switch was to further insure that even if the fuse blew, the way the layout is, you would at a min have headlamps if there were a fault and even this is not a 100% assurance since headlamp power is sourced via a fuse link.

your thoughts, doing this would put us back to a transparent oem design not even noticed by the user.

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #112 –
In the 5-pin redundancy config, pin 30 is the relay high output, 87a and 86 are hot from the switch while 87 is hot at all times and 85 is ground.  The relay becomes multi-source and Foe'sMod (We need a better name, it's been a collaborative effort and Foe'sMod seems somewhat self-serving) would exist alongside a stock style redundancy. Diagram at post 87

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #113 –
@Trinom, I'd like to add your Autolamp Amplifier diagram to my Interactive EVTM, If you're cool with that post up a diagram that's all 1 image in high res so I can edit the .pdf and update the virtual book.  Thanks for mapping that out, by the way.  I really feel it can be very useful to just about everybody.  Props.

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #114 –
Not speaking for trinom, but the diagram is not ,, repeat,, is not representing exactly what is on the card,, so it will not be "technically" useful unless the whole card is drawn as engineered as installed component for component.  the drawing is by way of a simulator to mimic the circuit only as he has indicted a few times.

You can call the diode mod what you want but im calling by your name, at the end of the day, you caused it to happen... so you own it,,  : )
besides, two years from now someones gonna have a question and putting inteligence into its "source" will point to the right person.

and,,,, at the end of the day my relay mod **is** over engineered as a result of your persistance and insistance !
I think now i have 4 spare relays...LOL.

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #115 –
Quote from: TheFoeYouKnow;407262
In the 5-pin redundancy config, pin 30 is the relay high output, 87a and 86 are hot from the switch while 87 is hot at all times and 85 is ground.  The relay becomes multi-source and Foe'sMod (We need a better name, it's been a collaborative effort and Foe'sMod seems somewhat self-serving) would exist alongside a stock style redundancy. Diagram at post 87

I would not recommend a 5pin relay on on k2 and here is why..........
You only want the 5pin relay on k1,,, this way when the user gets headlamps only,,,,,,, it indicates there is an electrical issue and would prompt you do something.
putting dual 5pin relays for k1&2 will make the relay failure invisible to the user... savvy?
this would also be in line with the original oem design application.

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #116 –
Quote from: TheFoeYouKnow;407259
@J, once you've completed and verified the mod in a permanent type installation, I say we move the mod into the "Electrical Chatter" section where I understand electrical mods belong. There seems to be a little less movement there, which makes me think that it wouldn't get pushed down out of site quickly like it will in general electrical.

oooh,, i didnt see this,,,

well this thread started out as an electrical tech question and never got resolution.. i didnt convert it to a mod thread.

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #117 –
jezz, i keep posting random here............

im concerned again with someting.
Your 1988 evtm shows the auto lamp selector switch to share the same ground with the relays.
My 1987 evtm shows the auto lamp selector switch and relays to have dedicated home run gounds.

I have to wonder what adverse effect this "could" have with respect to considering the "diode mode" cookie cutter to all users having auto lamps?????
Also, how does this effect Trinoms mod?

your 88 EVTM auto lamp show up as pg163>>>>>>>>.see here pg11, post 103

My 87 EVTM auto lamp shows up as pg 81>>>>>>>>>see here pg 11 post 105

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #118 –
Quote from: jcassity;407267
I would not recommend a 5pin relay on on k2 and here is why..........
You only want the 5pin relay on k1,,, this way when the user gets headlamps only,,,,,,, it indicates there is an electrical issue and would prompt you do something.
putting dual 5pin relays for k1&2 will make the relay failure invisible to the user... savvy?
this would also be in line with the original oem design application.

That's a good idea, I like it.  That's how I'll do it when I get there.
Quote from: jcassity;407270
jezz, i keep posting random here............

im concerned again with someting.
Your 1988 evtm shows the auto lamp selector switch to share the same ground with the relays.
My 1987 evtm shows the auto lamp selector switch and relays to have dedicated home run gounds.

I have to wonder what adverse effect this "could" have with respect to considering the "diode mode" cookie cutter to all users having auto lamps?????
Also, how does this effect Trinoms mod?

your 88 EVTM auto lamp show up as pg163>>>>>>>>.see here pg11, post 103

My 87 EVTM auto lamp shows up as pg 81>>>>>>>>>see here pg 11 post 105

I don't see that posing any kind of problem.  It's all the same ground plane.  I doesn't matter if they're grounded together or separately as long as the grounds are clean, it's all ground.

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #119 –
final as-built