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Topic: Hi beam and Lo beam question (Read 7653 times) previous topic - next topic

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #76 –
Okay foe your diode mod works as drawn as illustrated as discussed

So apparently this is a viable option just as long as we accept the fact that if the relays were ever to fail then there would never be any headlamps ever

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #78 –
I did not take any pictures.  I did the modification in a temporary manner such that no wires were cut anywhere so that I could have a safe back out without the effect of the diodes

The heat dissipation on the headlamp switch was very low and the little itty-bitty tiny exposed spiral wire that you can see on the switch barely got warm

In effect it all works fine

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #80 –
I'll put up some pics when I do it; maybe tomorrow.  I've got some mini-fuse style PCM power diodes that I've salvaged from junction boxes that have gotten sped out, I'll get them together with some inline mini-fuse holders.  I'll pull the pins from the headlight switch, heatshrink them and use some terminated leads in the switch connector to attach the jumpers to.

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #81 –
one thing we failed to do which i caught a couple days ago and forgot to mention.
Foe~can you verify this and i promise it will only take approx 3 to 5 min of your time.......


we forgot to discuss what relays associated with exterior lamps energize when using the manual lamps switch.  This should be a false statement but it is true~~~~!!
This ties into my post 72 oddly worded thought / queston which you (foe) responded to in post 76.
here is what i noticed and i it may come as a surprise.........

with auto lamps off......... (auto lamps are two green relays if ford was consistent from 87>88 years)
when using the manual light switch going from off to middle position, i hear a relay
when i continue headlamps i hear another relay click.
...upon closer look, i find that while using the manual headlamp switch, one of the auto lamps is picked to provide exterior lighting.
...I believe that auto lamp relay 2 is picked to provide headlamps.~~!! (i am 90% sure on this but if not then its picking auto lamp relay 1
...if i am incorrect, then its a wording error due to memory but *I DO KNOW* that one of the auto lamp relays is being picked when in manual lamp mode and auto lamp off !
...I dont see dospoogeentation supporting this but its true on my car.

instructions for verification
-scoot drivers seat back
-behind the heater controls / radio on drivers side, there is a mounting system of relays.
-locate the two green relays.
-the one with double blacks is auto lamp relay 1, a single black is auto lamp relay 2
pls confirm which one is in play during manual mode.



_____________________________________________________________________________________________
after some long staring at the diode mod, i am having a difficult time trying to find anything about it from power to ground that would be a disadvantage even worth having a discussion about. 
the requirements were:
-must reduce / remove heat from the headlamps switch~pass
-must operate such that the user of the car does not see a difference in functionality of the infrustructure making lamps possible~pass
-use one or two relays to achieve the above "if" the car does not have auto lamps ~pass
-make sure that manual lamp selectoin offered separate relay controls for exterior marker and headlamps ~pass

Common points of failure comparrison
-both systems manual or auto lamp share a common fuse for headlamp lighting ~ pass=fuse 4 blows then you have headlamps only
-with the diode mod, both manual switch or auto lamp systems share common relays ~ pass= based soley on past trends of relay performance reliability
-infrustructure wiring ~ pass=all wiring remains in place as designed as engineered just a long as mods are using relay trigger wire and fuses as applicable.
-Simplicity of mod using diodes~ pass= takes less time to diode mod than to relay mod in my opinion, less wiring to manage.


Failsafe headlamp engineered into the design
-with the diode mod failsafe headlamp illumination is still maintained, if fuse 4 blows, it only powers park lamp features anyway~pass
-with diode mod, if relays fail then there are no headlamps~wtg on a test to confirm something


I honestly can see on  thing wrong with this diode mod and i have tried and tried to do so in good stewardship of making sure the application is applicable.  While we wait on on final verificaton mentioned above, its my belief that nothing is sacraficed by doing this mod.

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #82 –
What you are observing seems like what should be happening.  In manual park lamps, relay 2 should be picked, when moving onto manual headlamps relay 1 should pick. Should the fuse to the headlamp switch blow, manual headlamps and autolamps should still work with headlamps only (no parking lamps) because relay 1 gets it's power BEFORE fuse 4 and so does the headlights gate in the switch. The rest of the headlamp switch and relay 2 get power after fuse 4 and the amplifier gets it's power from another fuse. If you check the diagram carefully, power from before 4 goes into the switch, through a circuit breaker, then to the manual headlight gate and back out to power relay 1's high current side.  You can verify this simply by attempting to operate the system with fuse 4 pulled.  I am satisfied with the redundancy that provides, as it's exactly how current build Fords operate.

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #83 –
are you confirming post 76 is no longer valid.
i am saying while in manual mode, only one of the auto lamp relays are picked.  without verifing first its something of a minor open issue

remember,, take out all things modification,, no diode mod ect,, "think" original wiring

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #86 –
I thought of something, the autolamp relays are almost certainly a standard relay socket, with only a 4 pin relay, but probably an empty 5th cavity.  If I added the 5th terminal and swapped in a 5 pin relay, I could rearrange the k1 relay to allow de-energized pass-thru to the headlamps, such that if the relay failed, power to the headlamps would default to flow through the switch. This could be done with k2 as well.
X

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #87 –
Quote from: TheFoeYouKnow;407162
If the mod is out, and the wiring is back to stock, the relays shouldn't be on with manual headlamps on and auto turned off.

pls confirm,,, I agree with "what we see on paper" but its seeming to be a **FALSE** statement based per my test.
regardless of your findings, its important we "know" what is happening completely as compared to the schematics.
I suspect you will be surprised to find you have an auto lamp relay energizing when auto lamps is not on,,, i await your physical confirmation as i know you will also find this possibly useful or perhaps just note worthy.

I agree with the 5pin relay to supplement fail safe but the guage wire needs mentioned as a mandatory minimum requirement...no biggie.
I almost put a comment in my last post about this 5pin relay concept but thougth it was not really needed and thats why i had the comment of "based on past relay performance".
It is interesting to revisit my question and perhaps more senior / experience folks can answer,,,
"what part of a relay most commonly fails", "is it the contact side or the coil side" based on past trends of known failed relays........

Tom R????????????????????????

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #88 –
Jay, I really don't see any problem with my mod. There might be a conflict with your setup, which doesn't correspond with EVTM, but I really don't remember your each mod.

Can you explain me, what's wrong on my mod?

Hi beam and Lo beam question

Reply #89 –
by the way,, i did not use your current limiting resistor, i fused it though and all worked well so not sure if the clr is electrically beneficial even in the case of a shorted diode.  Even a fuse may not be worth the bother because it likely would not blow quickly enough to save Q2 on the amplifier.