Starter Problem Solved!

Topic: Starter Problem Solved! (Read 9838 times) previous topic - next topic

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #30 – May 19, 2010, 11:10:15 PM

Quote from: jcassity;322430

yeah, we can read about the fire later.

a push button momentary on/off might be cool,,like vinnies.
he put a lot of work into it.

I have one on my Mustang already. I hardly ever use it now though it was a fun novelty when I first got it and it just looks better than the power outlet. I could care less about having push button start on my Tbird and if I had a 2010 Mustang I would not want it either because the power outlet is now covered by a flip open lid.

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #31 – May 20, 2010, 06:20:19 AM

easy fix for this problem is to put in an early style solenoid ive done it in all my birds and have never had a problem since

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #32 – May 21, 2010, 01:07:05 PM

Quote from: 87badbird2613;322596

easy fix for this problem is to put in an early style solenoid ive done it in all my birds and have never had a problem since

That is what I have... like this:

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #33 – May 21, 2010, 11:24:06 PM

As long as yours is Motorcraft.

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #34 – May 29, 2010, 12:00:28 AM

I was working on the car Tuesday and I went to start it and.. you guessed it... the starter kept running again. This time the battery was drained to the point that it had very few cranking amps and the voltage dropped to about 10v. The solenoid was again stuck. It got late and i just disconnected the battery. The next morning I tested the solenoid again and it was still stuck testing the continuity from the battery side to the starter side and from the starter side to the ignition switch "S" terminal side.

I took the battery to work and recharged it. Before putting the battery back into the tray, I disconnected the starter cable from the solenoid. I tested the solenoid again and by then it was unstuck. I hooked the battery back up and tested all the electrical circuits by turning on the key and watching the gauges, dash lights and listening for the solenoid to engage and it all worked as it should. At this point I have not cranked it again. I plan to get a Motorcraft solenoid before I start it again.

Does anyone remember many months ago in a thread or my resto thread that I mentioned that when I was relocating my TFI module I had to unfasten the distrubutor and turn it to get the original TFI module off? And does anyone remember that I mentioned that when I turned the distributor to one extreme or another, at a certain point the engine would attempt to crank? This is with the key off mind you.

I have been trying to find something in the electrical circuit that may cause the solenoid to stay engaged after I release the ignition key. I just replaced the ignition switch with a new one and it made no difference.

I was examining an electrical diagram of a typical Ford ignition and starter circuit and noticed that the "S" terminal wire Red/Light Blue is tied into a connection to the TFI module.

I have been suspecting live voltage somehow traveling from the TFI module directly over to the "S" terminal on the solenoid which leads me to believe something is happening to make this voltage exist and run to the solenoid when I turn the distrubutor to adjust it while the key is off.

This might explain the frequent starter run-on when I start the engine. I believe perhaps at the moment I turn the key and release it possibly there is voltage coming from the TFI module keeping the solenoid closed long enough for the starter to run on and overheat the solenoid contacts so that they get stuck in a closed position.

Any thoughts from anyone about this????

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #35 – May 29, 2010, 12:13:28 AM

Again using Vinnie's Tbird schematic...

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #36 – May 29, 2010, 01:50:27 AM

Quote from: jrad235;322270

Interesting...Watchdevil, I had the same issue last year, my problem was Napa solenoids. Had the original go out, replaced with Napa, worked for a month, failed(Stuck on), replaced with another one, failed 2 months later 150+ miles from home(Stuck on), replaced with ford OE for less than the cost of the other two, still going strong 6 months later.

Sometimes I feel like I'm talking to a wall....

But only briefly, then I realize how frustrating it is to have a problem with your car. So, I feel for you, but you need to take it one step at a time, and the first step is to buy a FORD solenoid from FORD.

It never does any good to jump ahead of yourself into obscure solutions before trying the easy ones. Although that is an interesting occurrence you mention, I haven't ever heard of that.

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #37 – May 29, 2010, 11:59:23 PM

Quote from: jrad235;323547

Sometimes I feel like I'm talking to a wall....

But only briefly, then I realize how frustrating it is to have a problem with your car. So, I feel for you, but you need to take it one step at a time, and the first step is to buy a FORD solenoid from FORD.

It never does any good to jump ahead of yourself into obscure solutions before trying the easy ones. Although that is an interesting occurrence you mention, I haven't ever heard of that.

Seriously it baffeled me when several I had done the TFI relocation to get the original TFI module off then later after I completed the relocation I was turning the distributor to adjust it before I tightened it down and the engine would try to crank. I never heard of this happening before it happened to me.

I am definitely going to get me a Motorcraft solenoid and try that first. If that does not help then the next step will be the starter itself since it could be drawing more current than it should while starting.

I just wanted to throw out there what I discovered about the ignition switch wire being tied into the TFI module after studying the wiring diagrams.

Do any of the later model year high torque starters with the piggy back solenoid bolt right up to the 1984 5.0 blocks as a direct swap?

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #38 – May 30, 2010, 01:35:46 AM

I believe that any starter off an engine with the SBF bell pattern will work, you just have to redo some wiring(Or jumper the solenoid), so the I6(Econoline, F150), Esshag(Not cologne) V6(Mustang/Taurus?), the 5.0(Mustang/F150/Etc, should all have viable starters. The one I have to replace mine when the time comes came off an E150 Inline 6.

This should help: Wiki - Late Windsor bell Patterns

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #39 – May 30, 2010, 09:54:32 AM

Quote from: Watchdevil;323617

Do any of the later model year high torque starters with the piggy back solenoid bolt right up to the 1984 5.0 blocks as a direct swap?

read THIS before anymore verbal dribble takes place...

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #40 – May 30, 2010, 11:59:40 AM

Most alternator shops can rebuild the old style starters for around $30 to $50. If you want to swap over to the mini starter then find one in a salvage yard and wire it up like the link shows in the post above. I would suggest running 4 Ga wire from the battery side of the fender mounted starter solenoid to the BATT terminal on the mini starter solenoid. You would also be good to run a 12 Ga wire from the starter side of the fender mounted solenoid to the male spade terminal on the mini starter solenoid. I have the mini starters on both my cars and they work great.

My personal feeling is that you have a starter problem. I run the starter solenoids from O'Reillys and have zero problems with them. I am a bit of a freak when it comes to my electrical system as I pull the starter and alternator off every two years or so and have a shop check them out. At a minimum they get new brushes and bearings. I would much rather have them 100% and know it than be on the side of the road in East Texas...think banjos man.

Pull the starter and take it to a reputable shop and have them check it out. While you are at it take them your alternator if it has not been checked in a few years.

Darren

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #41 – May 30, 2010, 12:31:30 PM

Quote from: Aerocoupe;323651

My personal feeling is that you have a starter problem.

Ditto.

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #42 – May 31, 2010, 04:16:04 AM

Thanks so much fellas for the input! I am definitely going to replace the starter with the mini-starter. Hopefully that will cure all my starter run on problems and keep from frying more solenoids.

Time for another trip to the salvage yard in a couple of days. I need to get a wiper control module for later model Fords so I can use the wiper switch function on my newer style combination turn signal/wiper switch.

I am also wiring up a Mustang convertible top console switch to handle the power antenna using two Bosch style relays to manage the circuits. The switch is only three wires and I need to isolate grounds and positives so the antenna can go up and down by switching polarity.

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #43 – June 04, 2010, 10:31:05 AM

Aghhhh! I almost had me a high torque starter out of a 1993 Tbird but I could not get the top bolt loose and I was not equipped to deal with it...

It is difficult to find a vehicle with a 3.8 or 5.0 with this starter. I came across numerous 4.0 and 4.6 cars. Later, I am going to try another yard on the North side of Charlotte. If I cannot find anything there I will break down, spend a little more and buy a reman from where I work.

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #44 – June 04, 2010, 11:42:45 AM

92 and up 302's and 351's have these starters. I have heard that you want to get the starter off of an automatic with a 351 as the manual transmission units are different but I have not confirmed this. The 3.8L cars also have this starter as well. I got mine off of a 99 V-6 mustang. The Explorer's are a great source for these starters.

Darren