Starter Problem Solved!

Topic: Starter Problem Solved! (Read 9837 times) previous topic - next topic

Starter Problem Solved!

May 16, 2010, 10:48:14 PM

Okay I am miffed! This is rather detailed so read carefully.

The Bird has a habit of allowing the starter to keep running after I release the key. I have already replaced the starter solenoid on the fender well not too long ago. I figured I could have gotten a py selenoid so I put a new one on today and it still does the same thing. I tested the current on the solenoid a few different ways. I pulled the S wire from the ignition switch off the selenoid and as soon as I put the ground cable back on the battery it tries to start. When I test the selenoid I still get voltage on the starter cable side when this thing is "stuck" and the S terminal is not connected. I am thinking to myself what is keeping the solenoid switch closed to pass the current to the starter? If I wait a few minutes, this problem cures itself and I can put the negative cable back on and the car will no longer try to start on it's own.

So what could be giving the starter 12V when the S wire is disconnected? I assumed the solenoid was sticking. But another brand new solenoid? Does't make sense. What am I missing? It seems voltage is somehow backfeeding from somewhere to the starter cable or positive connection.

Everyone's thoughts are appreciated...

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #1 – May 16, 2010, 10:51:25 PM

When it is sticking, whack it with a wrench or something. If it stops after a whack, it was sticking.

Maybe your starter is drawing an unusual amount of current and welding the contacts on the solenoid? That happens in smaller relays when they are overdrawn...

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #2 – May 16, 2010, 11:13:52 PM

Quote from: CoogarXR;322171

When it is sticking, whack it with a wrench or something. If it stops after a whack, it was sticking.

Maybe your starter is drawing an unusual amount of current and welding the contacts on the solenoid? That happens in smaller relays when they are overdrawn...

That has to be the problem.. It cannot be anything else. I have done nothing for the past few minutes looking at typical Ford starter and battery wiring diagrams and the starter is isolated from everything else in the electrical system and if the S contact is not connected then the starter must be the culprit drawing too much current causing the solenoid to stay closed.

Thanks for chiming in. Looks like I need to replace the starter. I wonder if the new solenoid is damaged at this point. Lately I have learned not to start the car unless the hood is up so I can run and disconnect the negative battery cable. I don't even have the negative cable tight right now so I can pull it off with my hand.

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #3 – May 16, 2010, 11:24:03 PM

try a different solenoid.

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #4 – May 16, 2010, 11:32:44 PM

Quote from: HAVI;322182

try a different solenoid.

I did already. This is the third solenoid. I replaced the original a couple months ago and the problem seemed to have gone away until a couple weeks ago it started doing it with the new solenoid. I bought another new solenoid today and it did the same thing right away when I first started it up after I installed it.

Oh yeah and I keep mispelling solenoid... DUH!

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #5 – May 16, 2010, 11:35:23 PM

Got a spare ignition switch? Typically, there's only 3 things in a starting system that can go wrong, short of wires rubbed bare and crossing. Starter, Solenoid, and key switch.

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #6 – May 16, 2010, 11:43:58 PM

Quote from: HAVI;322185

Got a spare ignition switch?

Now I am also wondering if it is indeed the ignition switch. I had already thought of this but dismissed it. The original is still on the car. I removed the "S" terminal from the solenoid when this happened and the solenoid stayed stuck. I tested the "S" terminal wire and it had no voltage with the key released. What I need to test for now is to see if the voltage on the "S" terminal stays on after releasing the key at any given time. This would in indeed cause the solenoid to stay engaged long enough that the high current may fuse the contacts in the solenoid closed until it cools off.

And I completely forgotten when I put the new solenoid in today and tried starting it, it would do nothing for the first couple of tries. I checked the smaller wires connected to the solenoid to make sure I did not miss something. After that it started and would not stop.

Thanks for the help...

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #7 – May 17, 2010, 12:28:38 AM

starter bendix,, new at napa for 18 dollars.

too easy.

the design of the bendix is to shoot out the gear upon the ring gear of the fly wheel , and upon you releasing the ign sw the bendix gets pulled back by the spring in the bendix cover on the starter.

The problem is the bendix isnt getting pulled back and therefore, due to the angle of the bendix teeth, when the engine fires up the bendix stays or "gets held on" to the flywheel so to speak.

Odds are in favor its the starter.

after the car starts, the noise may make sound as though the starter is still cranking when in fact its just spooling.

Id first check the bendix and see if you can walk the bendix out by hand and check for wobble. A brush kit/bendix and good cleaning should be a bad try for a good fix. Another option is to just start doing the lifetime replacement deal with your new parts from now on. A burr on the bendix can also keep it in the out position causing to to not release as well.

yes a starter solenoid could be contact welded. when the problem is happening, shut down the car quickly and remove the wiring on the in/out of the solenoid to check for condintuity across it. if it still has condinuity, but it appears the resistance is in flux, the solenoid is in a period of cool down so it will eventually open up and be ready for a new start. if you see continuity , the solenoid is bad as well.

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #8 – May 17, 2010, 01:00:43 AM

I would vote solenoid. I had the same problem on an old 86 when I bought it. It had a new flywheel and starter when I bought it. Brought it home and started it up and then it wouldn't release. I swapped the solenoid and had the same problem. I then swapped one from another car and never had another problem. The solenoid was brand new and faulty.

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #9 – May 17, 2010, 08:07:48 AM

My only other guess was maybe the ignition switch. If it hasnt been replaced already, some say it is a good idea to prevent a short and fire.

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #10 – May 17, 2010, 01:43:15 PM

Quote from: jcassity;322194

starter bendix,, new at napa for 18 dollars.

too easy.

the design of the bendix is to shoot out the gear upon the ring gear of the fly wheel , and upon you releasing the ign sw the bendix gets pulled back by the spring in the bendix cover on the starter.

The problem is the bendix isnt getting pulled back and therefore, due to the angle of the bendix teeth, when the engine fires up the bendix stays or "gets held on" to the flywheel so to speak.

Odds are in favor its the starter.

after the car starts, the noise may make sound as though the starter is still cranking when in fact its just spooling.

Id first check the bendix and see if you can walk the bendix out by hand and check for wobble. A brush kit/bendix and good cleaning should be a bad try for a good fix. Another option is to just start doing the lifetime replacement deal with your new parts from now on. A burr on the bendix can also keep it in the out position causing to to not release as well.

yes a starter solenoid could be contact welded. when the problem is happening, shut down the car quickly and remove the wiring on the in/out of the solenoid to check for condintuity across it. if it still has condinuity, but it appears the resistance is in flux, the solenoid is in a period of cool down so it will eventually open up and be ready for a new start. if you see continuity , the solenoid is bad as well.

Definitely not the bendix. The symptom is definitely the starter keeps on running and the only way to stop it is to take off the negative battery cable. When I put the cable back on it instantly starts.

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #11 – May 17, 2010, 01:45:32 PM

Quote from: mcb82gt;322214

My only other guess was maybe the ignition switch. If it hasnt been replaced already, some say it is a good idea to prevent a short and fire.

Definitely going to put in a new ignition switch as a measure of safety and elimination of cause. It's the original and it is old.

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #12 – May 17, 2010, 01:45:51 PM

Replace the starter solenoid.

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #13 – May 17, 2010, 04:58:38 PM

Ok, I thought I'd add the bad news.

My 92 Tbird did just this same thing. Starter kept on running unless I turned off the key.

I'm so smart I changed the ignition switch....no change...

I'm so smart I changed the solenoid...no change.

Surely it can't be the starter....wrong! That's what fixed it. I've never had another problem. It was the bendix. It would not disengage, but only sometimes.

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #14 – May 17, 2010, 08:58:46 PM

Interesting...Watchdevil, I had the same issue last year, my problem was Napa solenoids. Had the original go out, replaced with Napa, worked for a month, failed(Stuck on), replaced with another one, failed 2 months later 150+ miles from home(Stuck on), replaced with ford OE for less than the cost of the other two, still going strong 6 months later.