Starter Problem Solved!

Topic: Starter Problem Solved! (Read 9814 times) previous topic - next topic

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #45 – June 04, 2010, 11:51:55 AM

Okay, I did a little more digging and found this information on the Corral:

The starters are the same for auto or manual on '82-95, but on earlier years the manual and auto have different fitment. The same PMGR starter fits all applications below.

(1996-92) Ford Bronco 4.9L, 5.0L, 5.8L w/ AT
(2002-92) Ford E Series 4.2L, 4.9L, 5.0L, 5.8L
(1998-92) Ford F Series 4.2L, 4.9L, 5.0L, 5.8L
(1991-90) Ford LTD Crown Victoria, Mercury Grand Marquis 5.0L
(2004-94) Ford Mustang 3.8L
(1995-92) Ford Mustang 5.0L
(1997-90) Ford Thunderbird 3.8L, 5.0L
(1992-90) Lincoln Mark VII 5.0L
(1990) Lincoln Town Car 5.0L
(1997-89) Mercury Cougar 3.8L, 5.0L
Also retrofits
(1991-82) Ford Mustangs 5.0L (302 CID) All
(1979-68) Ford Mustangs 5.0L (302 CID) w/ AT
(1973-69) Ford Mustangs 5.8L (351 CID) w/ AT

With that I would think that if you found one off of any of the cars in the above list it would work for you.

Darren

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #46 – June 04, 2010, 04:56:30 PM

Quote from: Watchdevil;322757

That is what I have... like this:

what year is you car?

post mount solenoids and flush mount solenoid are a little different be leave it or not anyway..

you are useing a a mini starter?

if yes read my reply to the next quote..

Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;323641

read THIS before anymore verbal dribble takes place...

that is the correct way it should be wired but if the solenoid on the mini starter gets over heated a jammed starter is the least of your worries.. mine did and not only did it short ie the solenoid on the mini starter.. it was back feeding voltage to the factory solenoid and was frying the wires big time so i just wired it like the old starter and used the factory solenoid to crank the mini starter and has worked to this day 7 years later since i put the new motor in..

you just have to connect the small wire on the solenoid of the mini starter to the side that you would connect to the main wire that would go to the factory starter..

and would be wired the old way.. but i would suggest useing a late model solenoid from like a 87 and up cougar or mustang.. ie "flush mount" it has a better diode in it..

Nick

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #47 – June 05, 2010, 02:01:12 AM

Quote from: Aerocoupe;324235

92 and up 302's and 351's have these starters. I have heard that you want to get the starter off of an automatic with a 351 as the manual transmission units are different but I have not confirmed this.

My '92 F-150 does NOT have a mini starter. Does have the Mazda stick though...check 94 through 96 trucks with V8's, regardless of transmission.

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #48 – June 05, 2010, 02:37:03 AM

Quote from: Aerocoupe;324235

92 and up 302's and 351's have these starters. I have heard that you want to get the starter off of an automatic with a 351 as the manual transmission units are different but I have not confirmed this. The 3.8L cars also have this starter as well. I got mine off of a 99 V-6 mustang. The Explorer's are a great source for these starters.

Darren

I found no Explorers with a V8 engine. All the Explorers I found have a 4.0 liter V6 which mounts the starter on the driver's side and the nose isopposite.

I only searched one yard that day and had intended to go to another later. However , I decided to get a newly remanufactured one from work which has a lifetime warranty. Much less hassel for me and worth the extra $.

I was at first skeptical with the nose alignment between the old big starters and mini-starters, especially after looking at them side by side with my own eyes. The mini-starter looks like the nose cone sits lower, but it still must engage the flywheel properly. With all the confirmed fitment info, cetainly it is a direct swap-out. Now I cannot wait to get it done.

In just a few days I did a lot of research on Ford starters. The old style starters tend to draw a lot of current, enough to make the solenoid stay stuck together. When I sell an old style starter they have specific instruction to replace the solenoid at the same time and NOT use the old one.

Hopefully the new high torque mini starter will eliminate the run-on after starting. Plus it will have a newer different sound to it when it starts.

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #49 – June 05, 2010, 02:46:29 AM

Quote from: Blown306Cougar;324251

what year is you car?

post mount solenoids and flush mount solenoid are a little different be leave it or not anyway..

you are useing a a mini starter?

if yes read my reply to the next quote..

Nick

I flip-flopped around with solenoid styles. When I got the car it had the flush mount. Then it gave me the sticking problems.
I replaced it with the same. Then the new one stuck. So I replaced it with the older style one mounted on a bracket. Where my solenoid mounts it looks vulnerable to water running on it from where the hood opening allows water to run inside the fender well housing and I was afraid it would get damaged. So I tried a stand-off bracket older type solenoid. It failed too.

When I did a lookup of the solenoid for 1983 models it uses the stand-off bracket type. I went ahead and replaced it back to a later model flush mount type.

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #50 – June 05, 2010, 06:37:09 AM

Quote from: Watchdevil;324280

In just a few days I did a lot of research on Ford starters. The old style starters tend to draw a lot of current, enough to make the solenoid stay stuck together. When I sell an old style starter they have specific instruction to replace the solenoid at the same time and NOT use the old one.

Yes the old type starters do draw more current than the gear reduction type, but apparently they've cheapened the contacts in newer solenoids, I've only seen one or two stuck in almost 45 years of working on Fords... My '69 428 Fairlane still has it's original solenoid(C7xxx pt no) and it's on it's third starter... That said, a low capacity battery which cranks the starter slowly can burn up the cables and solenoid...

BTW I have and old type starter on the 5.0 in the TC, never had any problem, other than a field winding bolt falling out of it(you know the phillips head screws that's on the housing)...

Now a plug for the newer starters...

Probably a dozen years a go, my mom called and said the door would not unlock on her '93 Grand Marquis(she was using the remote)... Sure enough when I tried it, the door motor just grunted a little but did not unlock... When I got in the car and started it, it cranked slowly but fired up without any problem, at that point the power door locks worked fine... Sooo the battery was so weak it wouldn't even operate a door motor but still could operate the starter, would have never happened with a old type starter... Those starers must be good, I just sold that '93 GM, still has it's original starter...

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #51 – June 05, 2010, 11:46:41 AM

OReilly's has the Motocraft relays for about $25 and it should look like this:

They also carry Borg-Warner which is what I run on my cars and have had zero problems. If memory serves me right the BW's have about a 1/4" longer studs which helped with all the wiring on my cars due to the stereo, MSD, mini starter, etc.

I checked OReilly's website and it will not pull up the part number on my BW relay which is S5048. They show an S5049 but it has the two smaller posts where mine only has the one.

Darren

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #52 – June 06, 2010, 01:54:20 AM

Quote from: Aerocoupe;324308

OReilly's has the Motocraft relays for about $25 and it should look like this:

They also carry Borg-Warner which is what I run on my cars and have had zero problems. If memory serves me right the BW's have about a 1/4" longer studs which helped with all the wiring on my cars due to the stereo, MSD, mini starter, etc.

I checked OReilly's website and it will not pull up the part number on my BW relay which is S5048. They show an S5049 but it has the two smaller posts where mine only has the one.

Darren

I have the BWD Select Premium I bought from work.

I have the newly reman mini-starter I will try to put on later in the new week. I hope it will not be a bitch to install on these cars. IIRC, it was a bitch on my 1985 to do one and I paid to have that done. But then again, I may also be confused about the time I had to replace my oil pan because the motor mounts went bad and caused the engine to drop on top of the front sway bar and wore a hole in the oil pan causing me to loose oil. I remember the motor mounts were removed and the engine jacked up. But now I cannot remember if I replaced the starter then.

I had a load of work done to that 85 Tbird to keep it on the road because it was my only driver. I was broke and could not buy anything newer at the time. It ended up getting new tie rods, wheel bearings, water pump, shocks, wheel cyls... I forgot what else. I have to invest in most of the same things plus more for this 84 to get it in decent condition.

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #53 – June 06, 2010, 02:04:02 AM

Quote from: TurboCoupe50;324285

Yes the old type starters do draw more current than the gear reduction type, but apparently they've cheapened the contacts in newer solenoids, I've only seen one or two stuck in almost 45 years of working on Fords... My '69 428 Fairlane still has it's original solenoid(C7xxx pt no) and it's on it's third starter... That said, a low capacity battery which cranks the starter slowly can burn up the cables and solenoid...

Ah yeah I have that dreadful smaller Ford battery group 58... I bought it when I first got the car because that was the first thing I knew it would need. I have had to recharge it three times already and I have had it since early 09.

Anyway, installed another new solenoid last night and yup it did the same thing... So the old starter is drawing too much current and overheating the circuit. Which reminds me I need to replace the solenoid to starter cable while I am at this.

I plan to wire my new starter through the old style solenoid so there will be dual solinoid action. I really don't like the idea of a live wire hot all the time anyway.

I cannot

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #54 – June 06, 2010, 02:09:08 AM

Quote from: jcassity;322430

yeah, we can read about the fire later.

a push button momentary on/off might be cool,,like vinnies.
he put a lot of work into it.

I was digging around under the dash the other day while working with the wiper circuits (That's another story) and found a brown jumper wire attached to an unused connector with muiltiple wires connected that is obviously for the factory anti-theft system. Then I remembered my 1994 Mustang had the same jumper wire and it was effective as a cheap ignition immobilizer if I unplugged it, so our Foxes have these too... All the way up behind the left side of the dash at the firewall behind and up from the fuse box and parking brake pedal.

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #55 – June 06, 2010, 02:31:02 PM

Quote from: Watchdevil;324402

I have the BWD Select Premium I bought from work.

So....You didn't want to go get the $40 one from Ford why?

But at this point, if it does it immediately after installing the solenoid, it probably is the starter. And it will be a bitch to replace. I forgot to install mine before I put the motor in. That sucked. I believe your life will be easier if you remove the Pass. Side front wheel.

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #56 – June 06, 2010, 03:15:18 PM

Why would you pay $40 at Ford when you can get the same starter relay at OReilly's for $25? Is the one at Ford different? Not being sarcastic in any way as I would think the one at OReilly's is the same.

Changing the starter is all what you make of it. With a stock K-member, long tubes, and the stock style starter I would agree its not as quick as a car with a tubular K-member, shorties, an X-pipe, and the stock style starter. No matter what it is just plan it out and remember to disconnect the negitive side on the battery before starting :D

Darren

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #57 – June 06, 2010, 04:19:18 PM

i have read most of the tips on here and most of them are right on the money but one I haven't seen that happened to me was: you know the little ignition release button under the colomn.. if you hold it in while you are trying to start the car the key will stick and keep the starter running. Just a FYI.

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #58 – June 06, 2010, 04:54:15 PM

I have always used a really long extension for the top bolt on the starter and gone in from in front of the K member :D

Starter Problem Solved!

Reply #59 – June 06, 2010, 04:57:58 PM

Quote from: Aerocoupe;324458

Why would you pay $40 at Ford when you can get the same starter relay at OReilly's for $25? Is the one at Ford different? Not being sarcastic in any way as I would think the one at OReilly's is the same.

Darren

Darren, I was referring to the fact that he bought the BWD Select solenoid, not the Motorcraft.

The part store brands are usually not the same quality as the Motorcraft ones. I went to Ford(Because that's where I knew I could find one. I was unaware that O'Reilly's sold Motorcraft), bought a new OE solenoid for less than I spent on two shiznit ones, and no issues.

I hope that makes sense, I didn't notice that you were the one who posted about the solenoids available a O'Reilly's.

Just my personal experience. I understand that you can get bad parts occasionally, but the severity of the failure,(x2) in this case, warranted spending a bit more on a product that I can count on. When you are 200 miles from home and something goes wrong, your perspective is a bit different.