leaving the 5.0 engine

Topic: leaving the 5.0 engine (Read 6945 times) previous topic - next topic

leaving the 5.0 engine

Reply #45 – May 14, 2008, 12:44:52 AM

way to answer my question RED SPAR!! i would have to spend ATLEAST $8000-$10,000 to get a proprely built 500hp 5.0, and a new tranny, and a new wiring harness, and a new ECU!!! where as i can get a supra motor, 5 or 6 speed tranny, wiring harness, ECU and ignition for 3,000!!

leaving the 5.0 engine

Reply #46 – May 14, 2008, 12:58:47 AM

It won't be that cheap once you get into it - I can guarantee you that. People who generally do one of a kind swaps end up spending enough to buy a new car. To them though, it's not about the money, but the journey and the end product. These are also generally people who either have experience with fabrication or enough money to either learn from mistakes or to pay other people to do the work. I won't say that a 5.0/5.8 that can reliably handle over 400hp won't be dirt cheap though as you get to the point of the stock block cracking, then it moves to the crank and rods, transmission, etc. I could see the 500-600hp mark costing a bit over $5k to get running while still retaining drivability on the street. It depends on what deals you can source out.

This gets me to the next point - normally higher horsepower applications are not the most enjoyable on the street. Plan carefully as smaller motors with more power will let you down, especially when in a larger vehicle.

Lastly, okay, you swap out the engine, install the proper wiring, and the computer for another engine. Now what do you do about all the other parts of the car that rely on input from the stock equipment? Now you're modifying the body electrical of the car and other parts. What are you going to do about instrument cluster? Hack one together from a car that people don't seem to want to part out? I'm not sure how much different the vacuum controlled parts would perform, but you have everything from hvac to brakes that have to be thought through. Creativity is good but so is a thorough understanding of what you get into.

leaving the 5.0 engine

Reply #47 – May 14, 2008, 01:14:38 AM

Quote from: Seek;218733

It won't be that cheap once you get into it - I can guarantee you that. People who generally do one of a kind swaps end up spending enough to buy a new car. To them though, it's not about the money, but the journey and the end product. These are also generally people who either have experience with fabrication or enough money to either learn from mistakes or to pay other people to do the work. I won't say that a 5.0/5.8 that can reliably handle over 400hp won't be dirt cheap though as you get to the point of the stock block cracking, then it moves to the crank and rods, transmission, etc. I could see the 500-600hp mark costing a bit over $5k to get running while still retaining drivability on the street. It depends on what deals you can source out.

This gets me to the next point - normally higher horsepower applications are not the most enjoyable on the street. Plan carefully as smaller motors with more power will let you down, especially when in a larger vehicle.

Lastly, okay, you swap out the engine, install the proper wiring, and the computer for another engine. Now what do you do about all the other parts of the car that rely on input from the stock equipment? Now you're modifying the body electrical of the car and other parts. What are you going to do about instrument cluster? Hack one together from a car that people don't seem to want to part out? I'm not sure how much different the vacuum controlled parts would perform, but you have everything from hvac to brakes that have to be thought through. Creativity is good but so is a thorough understanding of what you get into.

He has it all planned out so let him learn for himself.

leaving the 5.0 engine

Reply #48 – May 14, 2008, 01:16:41 AM

Quote from: quicksilver;218732

i can get a supra motor, 5 or 6 speed tranny, wiring harness, ECU and ignition for 3,000!!

...must...stop....feeding....troll...must....resist....
...not...strong...enough...

*sucspoogebs*

I call B.S. You show me where you can get a reliable 500hp supra motor with tranny for $3000 and I'll eat crow. (I'm not talking any 5 finger dealers either..)

leaving the 5.0 engine

Reply #49 – May 14, 2008, 01:30:48 AM

Quote from: Red Spar;218735

...must...stop....feeding....troll...must....resist....
...not...strong...enough...

*sucspoogebs*

I call B.S. You show me where you can get a reliable 500hp supra motor with tranny for $3000 and I'll eat crow. (I'm not talking any 5 finger dealers either..)

I doubt he's trolling. I think it's just an overly enthusiastic kid who won't listen and needs to *#@$ up on his own before he learns.

leaving the 5.0 engine

Reply #50 – May 14, 2008, 01:40:15 AM

This is his thread - I don't see how it's even possible him to "troll" in it. That's not a very nice thing to say about the guy. He just needs some guidance and needs to be more willing to take criticism and others' ideas.

On the "only tbird with this" front, that's nice and all but expensive. For every other reason, swapping the motor is the wrong way to go about it. I also agree that something is up if it only gets 12mpg as I used to always get above 20 when commuting to work 30 miles every day in gridlock. I think up until the point of replacing the motor, I averaged 24 before it suddenly began to drop off, probably due to an o2 sensor. I'm assuming he doesn't need emissions as 12mpg would be likely quite a lot of HC's coming out the exhaust. Due to this, he may not know of a bad oxygen sensor, vacuum leak, etc that is causing such poor economy. Full tuneup would be the first thing I'd check (not just plugs, wires, cap, oil...), codes, and see if an o2 sensor could be broken free from its exhaust manifold.

leaving the 5.0 engine

Reply #51 – May 14, 2008, 01:44:55 AM

Quote from: quicksilver;218732

way to answer my question RED SPAR!! i would have to spend ATLEAST $8000-$10,000 to get a proprely built 500hp 5.0, and a new tranny, and a new wiring harness, and a new ECU!!! where as i can get a supra motor, 5 or 6 speed tranny, wiring harness, ECU and ignition for 3,000!!

8-10k for a 500hp 5.0? LOL. My 400hp build, if I were to buy everything brand new, would cost under $3k. Might wanna do a little research first. You're much more likely to spend 8-10k on all the fabrication and electronics work needed to get that puppies engine to fit and work properly.

Look, there's nothing wrong with you wanting to be different. But you're reasoning behind it is just stupid. You can't be a hot rodder and complain about the gas mileage your hot rod gets. The two simply don't mix.

A MUCH MORE LOGICAL IDEA[/i] is to spend 3k on a solid econo box and use the rest to pay for Tbird mods to your heart's content...then you'd be free to do whatever you want to the Tbird and (DRUMROLL) not worry about its gas mileage.

I'll bet I can get 500 reliable ponies from a Windsor ...

Reply #52 – May 14, 2008, 01:48:13 AM

... with less money and pain than it costs you to install a Supra motor. Not to mention getting better gas mileage.

Recipe #1 (of several):
Start with a 302 that came with forged pistons (or purchase new). Freshen the motor with rings, bearings etc, service the factory rods, crank, and block.

Add:

1) an economy grind cam ~$150
2) a properly matched intake ~$150
3) PnP Megasquirt w/ speed density ~$600 (or build it yourself for less)
4) 2 sets of injectors from TCs, 30-35 lb/hr ~$100 (or buy new for ~$400)
5) two turbos from two TCs, either IHIs or Garretts ~$300? (new will cost a lot more)
6) a T5 or T56 - $300-$2500
7) a nicely matched rear gear, choice depends on the trans. - $100?

fabbed exhaust manifolds - $?

I'd personally go with a 3.25:1 with the T5 and put the Bird on a diet. If you junkyard this project, or buy used off evilbay, it can be a lot cheaper. The exhaust manifolds can cost a little or a lot, depending on how you do it.

Check this thread:
http://www.ford-forums.com/ford-performance/11728-anyone-here-built-turbocharged-302-a.html
especially this part -
" hp @ 470, tq @ 463 .. stock internals"

I'm not trying to dog on you. Like others have said, if you want to do it just to do it, knock yourself out and post plenty of pics. Just be straight about your intentions if you're going to ask for a reaction.

As for engines, not sure I'd chose a Supra 6. Jag and BMW both make some sweet I6s, not to mention Chuck's project, which looks very promising. Part shouldn't be too much of a problem for a euro six and you don't have to deal with the ricer crowd. Those guys are always having to spend money to fix problems others engines don't have.

One more thing, when something breaks (and things always break), replacing SBF Ford parts is going to be easier and cheaper than Supra parts.

leaving the 5.0 engine

Reply #53 – May 14, 2008, 01:51:54 AM

t3skidoo wins.

That pretty much puts the nail in the coffin. There aren't many engines better and cheaper to get solid hp out of than the 5.0. And the few that are DO NOT include puppiesanese 6s.

leaving the 5.0 engine

Reply #54 – May 14, 2008, 03:27:54 AM

I think you watched tokyo drift one too many times...

All joking aside, it would be cool to see it done.

leaving the 5.0 engine

Reply #55 – May 14, 2008, 03:44:21 AM

This is funny.....

leaving the 5.0 engine

Reply #56 – May 14, 2008, 07:10:48 AM

Again, I don't care WHAT you put in the car. The ability to tune it is what is going to make the difference if you claim you want fuel economy.

This is the problem with your current set-up as well. My lumpy, old POS 302 in the '80 with a bad carb gets better than 12mpg. You have serious issues, or just drive like a dumbshiznit all the time, if all you get is 12mpg right now.

It's all about the tune in the end.

leaving the 5.0 engine

Reply #57 – May 14, 2008, 07:20:03 AM

Quote

way to answer my question RED SPAR!! i would have to spend ATLEAST $8000-$10,000 to get a proprely built 500hp 5.0, and a new tranny, and a new wiring harness, and a new ECU!!! where as i can get a supra motor, 5 or 6 speed tranny, wiring harness, ECU and ignition for 3,000!!

Closed mind FTL.....
*shakes head*
BTW, I'd LOVE to know what Supra had 500 HP from the factory.....

*Sigh*
As pointed out above

BTW I know of a stone stock 2 bolt 302 block that produces 557 RWHP behind a C-6, all motor with 100+ passes on it now.....It was NOT $10,000....Just trying to show what a stock block is capable of....

Hell, you could do up an entire fox chassis car for under 10,000 and have it run in the 10's and be totally track legit.....Many have done just that.

If you wanted to do this swap for the sake of being different and cutting edge then yeah sure, have fun.

Seems like you're considering this because you have an issue with your car you can not figure out and all your friends are saying the 2JZ is teh shizn%t.

Do some research. Start here:

http://www.sbftech.com
http://www.50tech.com

leaving the 5.0 engine

Reply #58 – May 14, 2008, 07:45:59 AM

I've been reading from the start, and I think if you have a dream, you should follow it. whether your wrong or right about the outcome, its still your dream to follow.
If you do end up with that much power under your hood, make sure you support the body structure to keep it from twisting into a pretzel.

leaving the 5.0 engine

Reply #59 – May 14, 2008, 08:48:48 AM

Toyota Ftmfw!!!!one