Global warming?

Topic: Global warming? (Read 5971 times) previous topic - next topic

Global warming?

Reply #45 – February 09, 2007, 03:21:34 AM

Well one thought that struck me about 10 years ago by a scientist was "we buy insurance for a lot of different things in our personal lives that have a less likelihood of happening than Global Climate change given the data."

If you look at programs today, National Geographic for example. They now, not only have the data from Ice core buttstuffysis and atmospheric records from Hawaii on CO2 concentration, for like 67 years or more But, actual Greenland and Antarctic ice recession over the course of years from satellite photos. What's worse, is that they don't know for sure which way the coin will fall; I.E., global freezing from the Atlantic conveyor stopping, as it did in the last ice age. This due to fresh water dilution of the north Atlantic or global warming, because the conveyor stops which draws excess carbon out of the atmosphere. Meanwhile, carbon emissions are continually being increased by human activity.

When the way is unclear its hard to execute a plan. Should we go crazy and plant more trees to soak up extra CO2 or burn way more fossil fuels increasing the CO2 to some tipping point to avert an ice age? One other thing that has been recently discovered, is that the Earths orbit is changing and the poles are slowly flip/flopping. So the beginning of this century is even more uncertain than the last one.

All we need now is another World War. If that happens, I'm just going to dig a hole and drive my Cougar in!!

Global warming?

Reply #46 – February 09, 2007, 03:41:06 AM

Quote from: jcassity;128418

congress has made the first move to decrease carbon emissions.,,,, They will introduce a bill to ban smoking in your car while driving or sitting inside it. Not healthy for kids,, i smoke but even with the window down, you will still go to jail.,, yep jail. So remember what you say when you talk about "doing something" about a problem.

Congress will always find a stupid solution.

I guess You joke????, I guess YES, if NOT, the human is than crazy I never expected...

Regards,

Dom.

Global warming?

Reply #47 – February 09, 2007, 09:58:44 AM

It all comes down to this, people: Waiting for government to act will likely end up in increased emissions as those windbags spew vast amounts of oral pollution in Washington (and Ottawa, for us Canucks). We can grumble about reduced this and mandated that until we're all choking on our own flatulence, but at the end of the day it's our OWN choices that will make a difference.

Everything we buy, everything we do, every choice we make, has an effect on emissions, and only when we are prepared to make better choices will a difference be made. We can't expect "big money" to shoulder all the burden. Some examples:

We all expect power companies to pollute less. They can do so by adding expensive emissions controls, burning expensive fuels, using expensive renewable sources, or simply producing less electricity. The only one of those choices that is surefire happens to be the only one we as individuals can do anything about: Burn less electricity. Simple things like using CFL light bulbs (for the record, every single bulb in my house AND my garage is CFL, except the diningroom chandelier because it uses small bulbs - not because I'm a bunnyhugger, but because I'm too cheap to pay high electric bills) make a difference. So does washing your clothes in cold water, only running the dishwasher/clothes washer when they're full, using the clothesline whenever possible, turning off TV's and computers when they're not in use, turning the thermostat down to 68 instead of 72, use air conditions only when it's unbearable (not "inconvenient") to do so, unplugging unused appliances (especially things like deep freezes), showering instead of bathing, and so on. These are all ways that individuals can save energy AND money with little or no inconvenience and without spending a bunch of money upfront. If everybody did this we'd save a ton of energy (and reduce emissions by a substantial amount). These are all things I happen to do myself, but for strictly financial reasons - a result of buying a house and having to pay for my own energy for the first time - it was quite an eye opener.

Another way I, personally, could cut down on emissions while saving money is to replace all my 100-year-old windows. I re-insulated the house when I did the renovations, but the original windows still sit there passing my expensive heat out into the atmosphere. They are so drafty that on windy days my curtains move. I can't afford to replace them yet, though, so that's one earth-saving method I can't use just now.

So there's several methods we, as individuals, could save the earth, reduce our dependence on foreign oil, and save money just by making simple and not very painful lifestyle changes. I'm not saying sit in the dark with a candle and a book every night - just turn the TV and Playstation off when you're finished with them, and turn out the lights when you leave the room.

Then there's our automotive choices. This is probably one of the worst areas for environmentalists, and it causes a great deal of political silliness, but at the end of the day the environmentalists are correct: We burn far, far more fuel than we have to. Environmentalists try to use government to mandate cleaner air, but again, it is individual choices that will make a difference. Everything from what we drive, to how we drive it, to when we drive it, to where we drive it, makes a huge difference. The obvious one is the "what we drive" - WE, as a society, drive vehicles that are much larger, heavier, and harder on fuel than they need to be. Unless you tow a trailer or routinely travel through woods trails nobody, and I mean NOBODY, needs an SUV. If you don't regularly haul firewood, construction equipment/materials, etc, you don't need a pickup truck. And I mean doing these things regularly, as in daily. If you only do such activities occasionally it would be cheaper for you and better for the environment to rent a truck when you need one, and drive a car for day-to-day requirements. Hell, few people even need midsize cars. My parents, for example, have two vehicles - a 2005 Dodge Dakota V8 4X4 extended cab and a 2002 Hyundai Sonata 4cyl. For a while the Dak was their only vehicle. They drove it back and forth to work every day, spending $75-$100 a week on gas. My father's justification for buying it was that he needs it to haul stuff back & forth to the cottage. Once, maybe twice a year he'd actually use his truck for "truck stuff". The rest of the year it's a very inefficient daily driver. Then gashiznit $1.25 a liter (nearly $5/gallon) and he bought the Hyundai. Now he burns WAY less gas (he says that the savings of fuel from driving the Dakota alone, even at our current 95 cents/liter, make the payments on the Hyundai). Problem is, now he's got a driveway ornament sucking $1000/month out of his bank account that's too expensive to drive, and too undesirable to sell. This is a classic example of people making stupid automotive decisions.

The "How we drive" portion is another fuel burner. Ditch the remote start (cars get 0 MPG when idling for 15 minutes). Drive the speed limit instead of 15MPH over. Avoid jackrabbit starts and sudden/frequent stops. Run all your errands at one go, instead of making several trips (this one applies especially to me, as living in the country makes my "errands" an 80-mile round trip all day affair). Take someone with you when commuting to work (you can even split gas costs, helping both of you save money). In other words, do all that stuff they taught you in driver's ed.

"When and Where" we drive can make a difference too. Running errands during busy traffic times results in excessive sitting around idling and stop/go driving. Driving two towns over because a quart of milk is cheaper there may save a few pennies in your grocery budget but will waste money from your fuel budget, as well as create excessive pollution. And, as mentioned above, running several errands at once is far more efficient than making several trips.

I'm nearly as bad. I drive an AWD, turbocharged Volvo station wagon every day. (don't even ask me about the converterless, smog-pumpless, V8 T-Bird, but at least that only gets driven about 1000 miles/year). It's not quite as bad as an SUV, and I do use it for "wagon" things quite often, and even use it for "truck" things when I attach my utility trailer to it, but as an everyday driver it's very inefficient - it gets about 22-23MPG highway. I could be just as well served by a Hyundai Accent.

Thing is, I don't want an Accent. My personal choice is that I want a big car with all the luxury goodies (and a smog-belching, 20-year-old T-Bird for a mistress). And that is what it all boils down to. Everybody agrees pollution is bad but nobody is willing to make personal sacrifices to reduce it.

Something MUST be done, just so long as somebody else is doing it.

Global warming?

Reply #48 – February 09, 2007, 11:35:33 AM

Quote

And that is what it all boils down to. Everybody agrees pollution is bad but nobody is willing to make personal sacrifices to reduce it.

THATS me right there. i do believe that the things we spew out are bad but I CANNOT give up my v8 car. i JUST CANT. nothing anyone says will ever change that about me. if people think im an insenstive selfish turd then so be it. thats how i feel. im going to live out in the f-in boonies anyway when im older, ive made up my mind. the further you are from a densely populated area the less likely you are to inhale all kinds of pollutants. thats my solution.

if there were lots of people that didnt mind driving smaller, less-polluting cars thats fine. i dont need everyone to be like me and drive big v8 cars. but I HAVE TO. call it what you want, insecurity in my manliness or whatever but i have to big, loud, and powerful when im on the road. i drive like my grandmother but i want the car to be that way.

Global warming?

Reply #49 – February 09, 2007, 12:50:47 PM

Well, we don't have have anything to worry about right now because it'll take a couple hundred more years to really have an effect globally ( not like "the day after tomorrow") but to think about your great great grand kids lives and how they probably will all have asthma. I'm sure science will be much more advanced by then and will be easier to deal w/. =:)..so why not splurge!!!!???lol

Global warming?

Reply #50 – February 09, 2007, 01:49:29 PM

Quote from: Cougar5.0;128424

Clearly since we can all think of examples where the government does something stupid - then we shouldn't ever try to do anything about any possibly earth changing issue right???

i was just being sarcastic,, and trying to make a point. Watch out if this takes hold (belief in global warming) because if it does, only the common man will have the realisic solutions while goverment will pork barrel the thing to death wheeling and dealing with industry for the deeper pockets benefit.

Just so everyone knows where i stand, i believe that something bad started happening just after we and other nations tested nuclear and atom bombs. The data points to it but,, i am yet still confussed by history books and farming history that points to similar trends in weather during the 1800's. Even our history points to a painting of george washington enduring an anbearable weather trend during the revolution.

Farmers almenacs keep pretty good records of trends like this. I honestly think our weather has something to do with the 1940's on forward.

Can anyone tell me what is the byproduct of one attom bomb by comparrison to the equal amount of automobiles or coal fired power plants?

as for the polar shifts,, talk to someone in the navy in the avation job class,,, they will just as myself tell you ,, there is one place in Rota Spain that is ideal for calibration of navigation systems. This place in Rota has been used by the Military for decades to do this task and these records show true north always changing.

Global warming?

Reply #51 – February 09, 2007, 02:06:10 PM

Quote from: jcassity;128523

i was just being sarcastic,, and trying to make a point. Watch out if this takes hold (belief in global warming) because if it does, only the common man will have the realisic solutions while goverment will pork barrel the thing to death wheeling and dealing with industry for the deeper pockets benefit.

Sadly, I think your sarcasm is appropriate here. I was trying to make a point about the dismissive tendencies of so many (nothing personal of course) - yet it is true that the "system" will not allow for practical and creative solutions. :flame: Well, I guess it's time to pray for the best. On a positive note, a 4 degree rise in average winter temperatures is quite nice up here in NE :D (the recent cold snap aside).

According to the CO2 rise timeline, something did start happening after WW2. Whether is was just the post war boom or a one time event triggered change (atom bomb?) is anyone's guess at this point.

Pic reinserted for emphasis...

Global warming?

Reply #52 – February 09, 2007, 04:07:24 PM

Sure, "green house gases" could be part of "global warming," but the earth has already been through tons of climate changes before we ever even stepped foot on this planet. So while we may be 'contributing,' I seriously doubt it's the biggest reason for it. I'm sure earth's previous climate changes didnt happen overnight.

Global warming?

Reply #53 – February 09, 2007, 07:44:37 PM

Could someone please tell me what the vertical scale is? I'm not calling b.s., but I can tell you anyone can make a graph that can show "preferred results".

Global warming?

Reply #54 – February 09, 2007, 08:08:40 PM

Quote

Just so everyone knows where i stand, i believe that something bad started happening just after we and other nations tested nuclear and atom bombs.

I've though about that too. How much heat/gases/radiation do these things spew out when they go off? I know we blew up a HELL of a lot of them in the late 40's-early 50's "testing" them. I know that if enough of them go off that you'd get a "nuclear winter" because the sun would be blocked out. Maybe the effects from the tests are causing the debre from the explosions to trap heat.

I'm not a scientist I'm just guessing on this one :hick:

Global warming?

Reply #55 – February 09, 2007, 10:37:42 PM

Quote from: Cougar5.0;128528

Sadly, I think your sarcasm is appropriate here.
According to the CO2 rise timeline, something did start happening after WW2. Whether is was just the post war boom or a one time event triggered change (atom bomb?) is anyone's guess at this point.
.

i do care,, more than i present myself im sure. I get pissed when some people find it prefectly ok to say we dont really have to worry about that stuff right now.

That chart reminds me of something , the moutain behind my house got clear cut 4 years ago. I got kinda mad when the guy cutting said he wasnt gonna plant anything back because "brush grows back for free". Yep, thats what he said so i called the West Virginia Forestry office and tried to learn a few things.
THe forestry departement said that it really wasnt a problem because from records they have, we (west virginia) are under 70% tree cover to date by comparrison to 21% in 1900.

I was astonished but he explained that there had been over 150 years of cutting for wood heat and cooking, building, smelting, transportation, fencing,,,,, the list goes on and on.

Later on, this was confirmed with my sitting in the Roanoke Va hospital and i looked at a painting of this town and the artist did the work in the mid 1850's. As i looked at the painting, i noticed the lack of trees for as far as the eye could see. It occured to that the artist painted what he saw ,, and from this hillside/mountain he sat on, there must have been hardly any trees to be seen. Afterall, what benefit would this artist have in painting the wrong city?

Today, we are WWWWWAAAAAAYYYYYY less dependant on wood.

My point,,,
Carbon emissions should be going down. I cant believe for a moment that even the sickest of running car running for 1 stinking hour could produce the carbon emissions from my fireplace right now.
Forced air wood heaters dont produce the carbon like a regular fireplace but still.

See my comparrison? Whle in these days of a huge need for wood, we also belched filth in the air form steel mills cropping up all over the nation. The data in that chart should show the problem to be present waaayyy earlier than the point ploted around the 1950's.

Something is screwy with it especially since we were a SERIOUS carbon emissions producer for well into 100 years prior to 1950.

These thoughts are exactly why I just dont get it at all.

If the chart is correct,, and i hope it is, then the problem is obvious to be nuclear/atom bomb testing.

Global warming?

Reply #56 – February 09, 2007, 10:56:10 PM

Greenhouse gases and global warming aside, whether you believe in it or not, that's no excuse to not save energy. Saving energy helps the environment, sure, but more importantly, it saves money. And reducing oil consumption reduces your nation's dependency on foreign oil (I say "Your" nation because I believe Canada is a net oil exporter). Nobody likes terrorism, but every gallon of middle eastern oil you burn supports it.

Again, it all boils down to individual choices. I try to save some energy because it saves me some money, but I certainly don't save as much as I should

Global warming?

Reply #57 – February 09, 2007, 11:05:31 PM

this whole thread and your last reply TC was the very root reason why i posted a thread about Linear motors.

Global warming?

Reply #58 – February 10, 2007, 11:10:34 AM

So how about that Crystal? She comes out of nowhere, drops a hot topic bomb, and hits the road. I bet she's got popcorn. What a little shiznit disturber. (

jk)

Global warming?

Reply #59 – February 10, 2007, 05:28:57 PM

Quote from: oldraven;128698

So how about that Crystal? She comes out of nowhere, drops a hot topic bomb, and hits the road. I bet she's got popcorn. What a little shiznit disturber. ( jk)

I say we blame her for global warming.

And for the record... I just farted, that should help speed things up a bit :D .