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Topic: harmonic blancer / damper came apart **SOLVED** (Read 3080 times) previous topic - next topic

harmonic blancer / damper came apart **SOLVED**

351 ford bronco 1990 full size

symptom- engine was shacking a bit like a plug wire was intermittent or maybe a misfire while under a load.  i also thought i had heard a metalic rattle under the hood. i checked the plug wires and all was good and tight.  i moved on to see how my fuel presure was and found good readings but................  then i heard a  rattle  while running similar to the one i heard when i was parking it last time a couple days ago.

the outter ring of my harmonic came off.

I keep equipment so long that it seems like i end up having to deal with problems that take years to surface like this one.  Ive never repaired a harmonic so any advice will be helpful.  What i need to know is are there factory alignment marks so when i install a new rubber,, i know i am doing it right.  Otherwise i suppose i could find TDC and dial it in like that especially knowiing my timning chain is really new.

i am not sure if we have harmonic "balancers" or "Damperrs" or a combo of both.  if both thaen that answers why i felt like the engine was running a tad rough.

thanks

scott

Re: harmonic blancer / damper came apart

Reply #1 –
on second thought,, i suppose it would be a balancer because of how much metal is milled off around its circumferance  where less is present where the timing marks are. 

Re: harmonic blancer / damper came apart

Reply #2 –
Crankshaft has a key way in it as does the harmonic balancer. Auto parts stores have removal and installation tools for loan.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
1988 T/C body with a 5.0 transplant. Motor has a Vortech V-2 supercharger, Edlebrock Performer RPM II intake, heads, FRPP F-303 cam, Comp Cams roller rockers, Power Pipe, LMAF, full Mac exhaust, lowered, Koni's, 5 lug conversion, Cobra wheels, 13" Cobra brakes, etc.
SOLD September 2020. Will miss this car after 19 years of building/driving/showing it off. Time for a new chapter in my life.
Dynoed 446 horse/409 torque at the wheels.
2003 Tenth Anniversary Cobra Convertible. 1 of 369 Torch Red made.
2021 Chevrolet 3500 dually, crew cab Duramax.

Re: harmonic blancer / damper came apart

Reply #3 –
no,, i mean repair the balancer,,, meaning put the inertia ring back on.

Re: harmonic blancer / damper came apart

Reply #4 –
Quote from: jcassity – on
no,, i mean repair the balancer,,, meaning put the inertia ring back on.

I dont think those are repairable. :dunno:
"Beating the hell out of other peoples cars since 1999"
1983 Ford Thunderbird Heritage
1984 Ford Mustang GT Turbo Convertible
2015 Ford Focus SE 1.0 EcoBoost

Re: harmonic blancer / damper came apart

Reply #5 –
well,, the inertia ring is pressed on and i have a spare to compare something else.

it appears that ford folds in half a rubber flat belt,, think folding "down and around" to double the thickness.  then they somehow keep the rubber in place while pressing the ring over the two layer rubber..

I have already figured out how to clock the inside to the outside parts thanks to having a spare to compare with.

I will install my spare,, but i will also do a repair vid on this. 
gezz,, the things that break the longer you keep equipment up and running.  I sure am running into things that i would never guess would break.

Re: harmonic blancer / damper came apart

Reply #6 –
Am i thinking of the wrong type of balancer for these? :confused:
"Beating the hell out of other peoples cars since 1999"
1983 Ford Thunderbird Heritage
1984 Ford Mustang GT Turbo Convertible
2015 Ford Focus SE 1.0 EcoBoost
 

Re: harmonic blancer / damper came apart

Reply #7 –
It would be interesting to see how to fold the rubber in like the stock ones.

I just hope the next video isn't "How to repair your hood" video. 
1988 Thunderbird TC, 5spd
Stinger 3" single exhaust, Cone Filter, Adjustable Cam Pulley, Schneider roller cam, Walbro 255 lph, AEM Wideband O2
'93 Mustang Cobra replica wheels on 235/50R17

'21 F150 Powerboost
'17 Husqvarna TX300

Re: harmonic blancer / damper came apart

Reply #8 –
If this is what broke on you: https://www.autozone.com/external-engine/harmonic-balancer/p/dorman-harmonic-balancer-594-181/884490_0_0?spps.s=6732&cmpid=LIA%3AUS%3AEN%3AAD%3ANL%3A1000000%3AIEN%3A19489353538&CATARGETID=120054150001289774&CADevice=c&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAADkcoVtTItdd96LpZSHcyEq3Rzmtw&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhtnFx_eNiQMVaGRHAR1iUis9EAQYASABEgJtPvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds&=undefined&new_store_set=true
it’s time for a total replacement.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
1988 T/C body with a 5.0 transplant. Motor has a Vortech V-2 supercharger, Edlebrock Performer RPM II intake, heads, FRPP F-303 cam, Comp Cams roller rockers, Power Pipe, LMAF, full Mac exhaust, lowered, Koni's, 5 lug conversion, Cobra wheels, 13" Cobra brakes, etc.
SOLD September 2020. Will miss this car after 19 years of building/driving/showing it off. Time for a new chapter in my life.
Dynoed 446 horse/409 torque at the wheels.
2003 Tenth Anniversary Cobra Convertible. 1 of 369 Torch Red made.
2021 Chevrolet 3500 dually, crew cab Duramax.

Re: harmonic blancer / damper came apart

Reply #9 –
I'm all for fixing things myself, but I would never take a chance on this.  I use to have a pulling tractor.  I've seen what damage a broken balancer can do, and that is only at 3000 rpm or less!  No way would I risk my personal safety, or someone else's, on an item that can be replaced relatively inexpensively.  Just my thoughts.
1986 Thunderbird
1970 Mustang Mach 1

Re: harmonic blancer / damper came apart

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Ductape91 – on
Am i thinking of the wrong type of balancer for these? :confused:


Its the item that has your timing marks on it.  ignore the pully mounted on the face (4bolt dead give away its 50oz since 1981"ish".

its the part that single bolts to the nose of the crank.  It has an inner hub and an outter intertia ring.  i have a spare which i will install that has good rubber.  I am going to use some of my spare tractor innertube material to do the repair.  I was told an old leather belt will also work perfectly fine.

Re: harmonic blancer / damper came apart

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Mikey97D – on
It would be interesting to see how to fold the rubber in like the stock ones.

I just hope the next video isn't "How to repair your hood" video. 

I generally dont post pics here anymore because when the board changes again,, all of it gets deleted anyway.  its depressing to me to know that the actual historical information here is all gone.,, 100% gone.  ill post topics and then a link to a vid but no more pics.  my 87coug build has no more pics,, so nothing ,, no info is useful to anyone anymore.

any of my recent posts are just linked to a vid,, not monitized by the way so you dont get ads interruption.

Re: harmonic blancer / damper came apart

Reply #12 –
well now,, it appears i ****DO NOT****  have a spare harmonic.

I removed the unit from my 1990 ford bronco full size 351w.
i compared it to my spare.
it appears my spare is for a 302. 
my spare is about 20% thicker than my bronco unit with repect to all thickness measurements i  made.

more differences...........
I am very confused on the exterior inertia ring.  the broco unit has more meat on it than a 302.
my bronco unit has extra metal on the inertia ring occupying the area equal to 10 o'clock to 2 o'clock.
my cougar  unit has extra metal on the inertia ring occupying the area equal to 9 o'clock to 3 o'clock.

I look on rock auto and yes these are available for my bronco.
i experimented and entered the data for my bronco and on a separate tab, entered the data for my 87' 302 cougar.
Doing a side by side comparrison, it appeared rock auto says the same number for both engines such as vendor "Pioneer".
I found this same problem with other vendors but not all while doing a side by side.

since my intension was to replace with my spare,, and now that i am gunshy with rock auto,, i found a unit on ebay for 59$ shipped that matched my for "E" number and foundary stamp so soon i will have one.

this will not prevent me from repairing the unit i have with a vid.  it will be fun,, no vids exist for this repair at all where one is pressing the inertia ring back onto the hub.

Re: harmonic blancer / damper came apart

Reply #13 –
Quote from: Mikey97D – on

I just hope the next video isn't "How to repair your hood" video. 

attempt 1 vid
https://youtu.be/4MTpsBlwT3s

Re: harmonic blancer / damper came apart

Reply #14 –
update...........
called "pioneer automotive industries" and they agreed their database is incorrect and that a 351w is 28oz imbalance for pre adn post 82'.  the 302 is also 28oz pre82' and 50oz post 82.... "ish",, and then the debat goes on for 1981 samples.

so............  pioneer refered me to "damperdudes" out of claifornia.
i called them and they say they are repairing dampers with two part silicone and baking them.
they set them up in a jig,,, and inject the two part silicone,, let it start to set then bake.
they mentioned that in california,, rubber was classified as a health hazard and they had to spend more money to retool
and meet state epa and global warming regs.
damper dudes and i discussed my measurements and observations and agreed that they to would be simply pressing these reman units together but they never consiered using recycled material like rad hose.
i found out that rad hose failed due to its excessive thickness.  the natural gap aorund the hub to intertia ring is .100''.
rad hose is .180'',,, heater hose is .140''.  i am doing part 2 with heater hose to press fit and repair.