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Topic: My Thunderbird Died Driving On Road Please Help (Read 3630 times) previous topic - next topic

My Thunderbird Died Driving On Road Please Help

I was driving the 84 Tbird this morning and all of a sudden it just died without warning,  car has a 6 cyl motor  with throttle body fuel injectors I took the fuel line to carb off so I could see if it was getting fuel and fuel was being supplied to the carb I then disconnected the cable that connects to the base of the carb and it started and It idled for appx 30 seconds then died on its own , any clues on why it wont start?

My Thunderbird Died Driving On Road Please Help

Reply #1 –
thats a CFI system.
first,,, do you have an electronic module on the side of the distributor?

either way,
verify you have spark

sounds to me like you proved you have "some fuel delivery.

My Thunderbird Died Driving On Road Please Help

Reply #3 –
Quote from: TheFoeYouKnow;463274
1. This is a repeat thread
2. It is not necessary to make your OP from large bold text.

I'm not sure if this is a fuel or electric problem so posted in either forum until specific cause of problem can be found

PIP or Crank Sensor Problem??

Reply #4 –
Quote from: jcassity;463266
thats a CFI system.
first,,, do you have an electronic module on the side of the distributor?

either way,
verify you have spark

sounds to me like you proved you have "some fuel delivery.





Thank you for your reply I did not check the spark as I have no one here to help turn the ignition key while I examine spark in the engine compartment and my eyes are too bad to see it from that distance

My Thunderbird Died Driving On Road Please Help

Reply #5 –
feel free to give me a call at 304 772 3411,, i know those CFI systems well.

Again, do you have an electronic gizmo bolted to the side of your distributor?  this is important.

if you do not,, then you are a DURASPARK system and YES you would likely then have a crank sensor.

If you do have a TFI module on the side of your distributor then you are an EECIV system which is good news.


To check for spark........

disconnect one of the easy spark plug wires on the same side as your coil.

insert a spare spark plug into the end, any old plug will do

Keep your ignition switch off for now

go get a screw driver

practice a couple times jumping your starter Relay large studs by shorting them together with your screw driver.
dont pansey around doing this,, dont be light handed or you will get a bunch of arc and spark.  Just short the two studs by putting the screw driver on one stud,, and while keeping that stud in contact,, rotate around bo bring the other stud in the game,, but do it with authority,, dont be gentle.  when done right there isnt but just a smidge of arc.
The result will be that you force the motor to spin over and over.

practice this so that you can make the engine rotate for 5 or 10 seconds.

now that you mastered jumping the starter relay.................

turn on the ignition switch.

hold the spark plug threads to a ground such as a strut tower threaded bolt head.... hold it there firm.

now jumper out your starter relay.

you should see spark happening on the temporary plug you inserted.

BLUE  spark ok

yellow spark BAD

yellow spark is either a bad PIP or TFI.

TFI- easy to change but likely is not your problem.

Bad PIP.. requires you to pull the distributor,, take it apart to remove the PIP and then re install.....which means..............

the whole process of getting distributor properly removed and replaced.

let me know if i can help more.

it would likely be best to do this test with the leas amout of sunlight so you can judge the spark color

My Thunderbird Died Driving On Road Please Help

Reply #6 –
To be more specific,,,
first off we should be pulling your codes for you.

this can be done with a paper clip but are you a duraspark system or are you a EECIV system?

My Thunderbird Died Driving On Road Please Help

Reply #7 –
How many miles are on it? I had a 85 3.8 LTD act the same way when the timing chain/gears wore out. But it had almost 200k miles on it.

First things first, as Jcassity mentioned, the ignition module is a much more common failure. However, that's usually an all-or-nothing failure. It either starts and runs normal or it doesn't start at all; there's no "running bad" phase.
CoogarXR : 1985 Cougar XR-7

My Thunderbird Died Driving On Road Please Help

Reply #8 –
Quote from: jcassity;463296
To be more specific,,,
first off we should be pulling your codes for you.

this can be done with a paper clip but are you a duraspark system or are you a EECIV system?


Thank you very much for your help and I looked at the distributor and it looks like there is a rectangular module on one side with a cable going out of it

My Thunderbird Died Driving On Road Please Help

Reply #9 –
Quote from: CoogarXR;463302
How many miles are on it? I had a 85 3.8 LTD act the same way when the timing chain/gears wore out. But it had almost 200k miles on it.

First things first, as Jcassity mentioned, the ignition module is a much more common failure. However, that's usually an all-or-nothing failure. It either starts and runs normal or it doesn't start at all; there's no "running bad" phase.




Thank for your help as well and I had looked at the distributor and it looks like there is a rectangular module on one side with a cable going out of it

The car has appx 99,000 original miles

My Thunderbird Died Driving On Road Please Help

Reply #10 –
When I disconnected the cable wires at the base of the throttle body I was able to get the car to idle for appx 30 seconds when the wires were disconnected a friend who does not have a thunderbird suggested it might be dirty or clogged injectors and I should take them out and clean them is it possible injectors are the problem?

My Thunderbird Died Driving On Road Please Help

Reply #11 –
not sure if this is helpful but I believe the morning of the car dying and not running again it took a lot of cranks to get it started that morning

My Thunderbird Died Driving On Road Please Help

Reply #12 –
I would buy a spark tester. They are cheap.

When you connect it to the center wire on your distributor (coil wire), it should stick up high enough that you can see it from the drivers seat (looking through the gap under the hood when the hood is up).

I have owned several CFI fords, and I have never had any problems with the injectors themselves. That's just my experience though, not to say it doesn't happen. We really need to rule out that ignition module first. That's the most dead-common problem on these cars.

If you can't buy a spark tester, most advance/autozone places can test the ignition module. You just have to take it off and take it in there. It takes a very thin-wall socket to get it off, or the special "ignition module tool".
CoogarXR : 1985 Cougar XR-7

My Thunderbird Died Driving On Road Please Help

Reply #13 –
stop disconnecting that harness on the back of the CFI.
it will be a few red wires and brown.  there is a red loop back jumper.

there is constant power to the injectors when the key is forward and the computer switches the ground off and on to the injectors.

The Pick up assembly down in the distributor also known as the PIP or Hull Effect does the same job as the points system.  you have a finned object that spins around in the dizzy passing in front of the PIP and associated magnet down there.

one of your fins is skinny and that detects and locates cylinder #1 so the computer can know where the motor is at when spinning.  Cyl 1 gets less spark than all the other cylinders so thats why sometimes plug 1 may appear different in burn color than the other plugs.

In all my years....  if you cant start the car at all then its the TFI- easy to change.

if after the car cools down and it starts up, its the PIP.

yes you can remove the injectors,, they are green top 35LB units.  I just take out the tiny screen filter on them and toss em.  not having injector screens will fix the problem all CFI guys have which is the famous "hesitation off the line" problem.
those factory injector screes collapse shut.  ~~ think smashing a garden hose closed with your foot,, some water gets out but not all.

I highly do **NOT** suggest you remove the injectors intil you are ready.  there are 4) phillups screws that need taken out and one or two of them always hell to undo.

check my diy link below,, your CFI base plate gasket which integrates the EGR is very important as well for good vac.

the CFI system is more simple than a Carb type car... easy to work on,, once you know the basics.

so,, as for the spark tester,,, i disagree, it wont show you the color of the spar, it will only show you a light bulb illuminating.  Weak spark will still show you a light bulb.

you have to see that the spark is a "blue"ish" / White" looking spark.  anyting other than that is telling you that the TFI is good and the PIP is bad.

usually when the PIP goes out,, the spark will be there but weak.
usually when there is no spark at all, the TFI is the problem.

My Thunderbird Died Driving On Road Please Help

Reply #14 –
Thank you all again for you help , I am more hopefull after hearing all this that it is the module rather than the injectors

since this has the external module on the distributor how do I check the code with a paper clip?