PCV filter on the 5.0

Topic: PCV filter on the 5.0 (Read 9115 times) previous topic - next topic

PCV filter on the 5.0

Reply #30 – December 16, 2012, 01:06:39 AM

well, the purpose of this element has been revealed......... but prepare yourselves for a surprise. I had a gut feeling the engineers would not spend the money on something like this if a far more inexpensive solution was readily available. Think about it for a moment,,,,,

-they engineered a larger hole in the lower intake
-they intentionally engineered a step down adaptor to allow for this "element"
-they intentionally engineered the hole which the element sits in to have a defined depth such that it met flush with the bottom of the upper grommet and coupled the PCV valve.
-they also intentionally designed a metal round holder to contain a bunch of windings of what appears to be brass in the range of approx 20awg wire mesh.

sorry, stupid stuff bugs me sometimes but to my relief, the only thing that does really makes sense is its a FLAME ARRESTOR!!!!

PCV filter on the 5.0

Reply #31 – December 16, 2012, 12:37:18 PM

GOOD CALL JAY 100% That was an easy one as i used to do a lot of marine engines and Flame traps are everywhere. As the matter of fact the air cleaners on boats are engineered as flame traps also. They are mandatory. Basically on a back fire the engineers did not want a blast back in the oil system if the PC valve did not seal properly. I spent months finding out what was when i saw it many years ago.

STORY

Years ago my dad told me to check the oil in a customers Y block 57 ford engine. He asked me to test the tip of the dip stick with a match. He explained to me he thought the needle and seat was sticking on the carb and diluting the oil. So i did and the end of the dip stick lit up with a match. I was so proud i found this and yelled over to POP. With that i was putting the dip stick back in the engine

BOOM the both valve covers blew of the engine like a bom. What the hell did i DO???? I hit the Positive battery cable with the dip stick when it was almost all the way down in the engine. Those Y blocks were held on with 2 studs and the covers blew off. Embarrassed shocked and soiled my pants POP laughed his butt off. You see he told me he did the exact thinf many years ago. The 57 ford had the battery right next to the dip stick and the positive cable was right in line with the sticks handle. TRUE STORY.

PCV filter on the 5.0

Reply #32 – December 16, 2012, 03:11:47 PM

Well I ain't believing the flame arrestor story(even if similar is used in other applications), if that was true why was it eliminated on the Lightnings that have the same style intake???

PCV filter on the 5.0

Reply #33 – December 16, 2012, 03:41:38 PM

Quote from: TurboCoupe50;404693

Well I ain't believing the flame arrestor story(even if similar is used in other applications), if that was true why was it eliminated on the Lightnings that have the same style intake???

hmm,, probably after years of on the road tests with it installed, someone concluded it would reduce power if installed on a Lightning,, just speculating. YOu's know better than i would about this,, and your description makes sense as well. i can see how useful this would be if there were a backfire in the lower intake.

PCV filter on the 5.0

Reply #34 – December 16, 2012, 07:25:48 PM

I don't see positive pressure(backfire) in the intake as a issue, the PCV valve is a one way device...

Oh yeah the '57 Ford mentioned, did not even have a PCV system, wasn't even invented till the early '60s when they became required in Cal... Many 49 States used a road draft tube into at least '64 as I had a '64 Galaxie 500 that had the tube hanging under the vehicle...

PCV filter on the 5.0

Reply #35 – December 17, 2012, 09:15:07 AM

thats a good point,

btw, we to have been blessed with a cyclone but its not mine, close enough though and if the wind is blowing in my favor, perhaps i will have it one day.

PCV filter on the 5.0

Reply #36 – December 17, 2012, 02:54:58 PM

How many turbo charged and supercharged aplications have a pcv valve, instead of a seperator?

The pcv valve is designed to pull air into the crank to keep the piston rings from fluttering. If the engine is not properly sealed, then air leaks into the crankcase pressurizing it. On a high mile engine with worn rings, the pcv valve probably does next to nothing. One reason why a lot of guys run a breather on the valve covers, rendering the pcv useless. This issue is even worsse on turbo and supercharged cars for obvious reasons.

Ever wonder why tracks require a locking oil dipstick?

PCV filter on the 5.0

Reply #37 – December 18, 2012, 05:56:42 AM

Quote from: TurboCoupe50;404706

I don't see positive pressure(backfire) in the intake as a issue, the PCV valve is a one way device...

Oh yeah the '57 Ford mentioned, did not even have a PCV system, wasn't even invented till the early '60s when they became required in Cal... Many 49 States used a road draft tube into at least '64 as I had a '64 Galaxie 500 that had the tube hanging under the vehicle...

Who the hell said it had a PCV VALVE. 50 Do you actually think i did not know older engines have a road draft tube!!!! That is really insulting!! What i said was i hit the batterys Positive side of the cable with the dipstick. It sent a spark down in to the engine and ignited the crankcase fumes and blew the covers off. That is a FLAME TRAP. If it is a filter what does it FILTER!!! So let me get this straight 50!! Why do people change the PCV VALVE. here is why the check valve as you say is true. It gets dirty and if the engine for some reason backfires the flame trap is their for exactly that. Basically i knew i should not have answered this question because the push back boggles my imagination. Call it what you want and basically i dont care. But think about the Lightning and why it does not need one. THEIR IS A BIG DIFFERENCE. Thank you and i appreciate you schooling me on road draft tubes. I cleaned more of them as a kid than i would like t talk about. Those chevy tin cans were a BITCH and the Y block valley cover was another pain in the A$$ when i was young. Thank You So Much!!

PCV filter on the 5.0

Reply #38 – December 18, 2012, 06:08:03 AM

Quote from: Haystack;404764

How many turbo charged and supercharged aplications have a pcv valve, instead of a seperator?

The pcv valve is designed to pull air into the crank to keep the piston rings from fluttering. If the engine is not properly sealed, then air leaks into the crankcase pressurizing it. On a high mile engine with worn rings, the pcv valve probably does next to nothing. One reason why a lot of guys run a breather on the valve covers, rendering the pcv useless. This issue is even worsse on turbo and supercharged cars for obvious reasons.

Ever wonder why tracks require a locking oil dipstick?

Not to get crazy here but how does a PCV VALVE keep ring from fluttering??? Never heard that one before!!!! Explain Please???

Second a PCV does plenty on a car that has worn rings. It sucks in all that blow by. All you have to do is remove a PCV valve from a car with bad rings and see the CO numbers tank while doing an emission test. All my turbo cars run a PCV VALVE STACKS?? I am not getting your post one bit and the ring statement is beyond my knowledge of piston rings and flutter!!!

Off hand the Turbo coupe in fact has a seperator and a PCV VALVE. Closed crankcase ventilation is an emission device and has to be firmly in place. Just saying. Please correct me if i am wrong!!

PCV filter on the 5.0

Reply #39 – December 18, 2012, 06:46:01 AM

Piston ring flutter remedies

Avoid radial collapse by choosing another running face geometry and/or another radial pressure distribution
Retard pressure build-up under the top ring e.g. by using a ring in the 2nd groove that seals less effectively
Increase the volume under the ring
Piston groove inclination
Decrease the inertia forces
Adjust the axial clearance

PCV filter on the 5.0

Reply #40 – December 18, 2012, 01:00:26 PM

Quote from: TOM Renzo;404804

Who the hell said it had a PCV VALVE. 50 Do you actually think i did not know older engines have a road draft tube!!!! That is really insulting!! What i said was i hit the batterys Positive side of the cable with the dipstick. It sent a spark down in to the engine and ignited the crankcase fumes and blew the covers off. That is a FLAME TRAP. If it is a filter what does it FILTER!!! So let me get this straight 50!! Why do people change the PCV VALVE. here is why the check valve as you say is true. It gets dirty and if the engine for some reason backfires the flame trap is their for exactly that. Basically i knew i should not have answered this question because the push back boggles my imagination. Call it what you want and basically i dont care. But think about the Lightning and why it does not need one. THEIR IS A BIG DIFFERENCE. Thank you and i appreciate you schooling me on road draft tubes. I cleaned more of them as a kid than i would like t talk about. Those chevy tin cans were a BITCH and the Y block valley cover was another pain in the A$$ when i was young. Thank You So Much!!

Your welcome, I like to help out anytime I can...

BTW if you're insulted I don't really care...

Merry Christmas...

PCV filter on the 5.0

Reply #41 – December 18, 2012, 01:23:59 PM

Right Thought so.

PCV filter on the 5.0

Reply #42 – December 18, 2012, 05:01:38 PM

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-forced-induction-nitrous/1450082-exhaust-crankcase-evacuation-it-works.html

Here you go tom, has a bowtie attached and everything, so you might believe it. You might want to pay particular attention to where it says it helps with oil consumption and blow by while increasing piston ring seal. Can't imagine why ford would go through all the effort to include it from the factory if it didn't work.

A stock pcv system does esentially nothing when the engine in under load, that's why you see stupid things like crankcase evacuation pumps, and breathers for the valve covers. This si aalso why a lot of guys run catch cans along with a breather, eliminating the pcv system. I personally like the idea of a header evacuation kit over adding an electric pump, like the 03-04 cobras have.

PCV filter on the 5.0

Reply #43 – December 18, 2012, 08:27:15 PM

Stacks i know all of this i set up engines with pumps all the time. What does it have to do with RING FLUTTER. And i know if their is no vacuum at WOT the crankcase is not evacuated. But that is why i use 2 PCV valves on Fords. Everyone knows that a catch can is good. But 99% of all engines handle PCV with a simple PCV system. If you want to see a pump system i will post one from my Firebird. lets get real here. So what is your point. If you need a catch can So be it. Engines have blow by that is a given. Their is no engine on this planet that does not. Now explain the ring flutter. Because i know something about rings. I THINK??? Just saying!!

Stacks years ago i used to use header scavenging for evacuation. Now we use pumps. I know what you are talking about but it is not RING FLUTTER. When pressure builds in the crankcase it floods the rings with 2 much oil. I found this out years ago when i installed Honda squatters in my 2.3 TC engine. To much oil for the rings to handle. To much of a good thing can cause other issues. Years back i used to drill the top of the pistons vertically down to the back of the ring land o the upper ring set. This pushed the top ring against the walls. It cant be dun successfully on a street car because the holes carbon up. Also many engine builders gap the second ring tighter than the top. That is totally wrong. The second ring should have a bigger gap. Not to get to technical here . Crankcase vacuum or pulsator evacuation is fine in high revving engines. On the street a 2 PCV system on the SBF is totally adequate as far as i am concerned and i have tested this. But you said ring flutter. That is incorrect. With that i have spent endless hours behind the dyno for many years and i do not shoot from the hip. With that thanks and have a good night. Lets not go their with the BOW TIE. People do not want to hear that. Even though i am a chevy guy as well as ford. Thanks

PCV filter on the 5.0

Reply #44 – December 18, 2012, 10:11:51 PM

Right tom, okay you win. We all bow down the your greatness. I guess the best I'll ever get out of you is a half agreement with you throwing your experiance in my face followed by a so what. Even if you do agree with me.

I wish I had absolutely nothing better to do then try to piss on people all day everyday, just to try to start an argument.