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Topic: 88 5.0 bird no start (Read 3824 times) previous topic - next topic

88 5.0 bird no start

well, this afternoon has been fun,

88 bird 5.0 no start
no starter relay click
no eec relay click
no fuel pump relay click
no power windows
no turn signals
no hazards
headlamps work
marker lights work
instrument cluster intermittant
all fuses good
all solenoid fuse links have continuity and power downstream

pulled the car 20 miles with a chain and got it in the garage
pulled off the starter relay red/blue wire and with koeo there is no power.
,,should be low voltage around 5v with key in run and full battery in start..i have nothing in both key positions.


continuity and voltage check all fuse links down stream of the starter relay and all have power out.
litterally ripped all the wire loom off the drivers side up to entry at the fire wall to inspect the red /blue and parallel white/red wire for damage and there is none.



....moving on to the ignition switch and it fell apart off the column, its a  to remove anyway but put on my good spare right away.
my son was back probing the ign sw terminals and said he had no power anywhere,, humm,,, impossible i say.
Rechecked the fuse links but did not do the ing sw back probe myself, will do tomorrow.

Problems in the bird are from what i see have only one common point which is the ign sw but the replacement i put on yields the same results which really sucks.




so it appears i found the problem, no power delivery to the starter relay but even after i swapped out another ign sw, also swapped in another starter relay and also verified fuse links are good, this is starting to sound like a dash board nightmare,, any thoughts?

I am going to inspect the Fuse 1 termination on the top side of the fuse panel to see if it somehow came undone, evtm shows the power for the starter relay passes over one side of fuse 1, not across it therefore justifying the upstream requried fuse link.

whats really making me sick is that mason said he smelled melting plastic while i was pulling him, he had his marker lights on which do work along with headlamps but the markers where the only thing on besides his key switch in the run pos.


I suppose my next logical step is to move on to the Neutral safety switch, that would open this circuit i am troubleshooting.


three questions:
***ANYONE GOT AN 88 evtm page for the start circuit, my 87 evtm does not include the starter relay white/red wire.

***can anyone tell me how thier bird solenoid wires hook up, mason has battery with all secondary ring terminals on one post and the starter cable on its own on the other post.  this doesnt seem right to me, my coug is not like this but its an 87.

*** i belivet he previous owner converted to a floor shifter from column, would the N safety switch still be on the transmission or is it a micro switch on the shifter?  my gut says its still on the transmission.

88 5.0 bird no start

Reply #2 –
I had a problem last year where I had no radio and no cluster. tracked it to the ignition switch, the switch was fine, but the grey/yellow wire had melted the connector shell and pulled back enough to not be making contact with the switch terminal.  I replaced the switch AND reshelled the connector.  Not saying it's related, just reminded me of it by your description.

88 5.0 bird no start

Reply #3 –
I was thinking ignition switch or connector also.  unless you have melted wires somewhere it really cant be much else.

88 5.0 bird no start

Reply #4 –
I thought I had read somewhere, whether it was on this site or another one, I don't remember... but anyway, our cars have known issues with wiring failures, most having something to do with the ignition switch.  I know on both of my birds, the TC and my old LX (May she rest in piece), the ignition switch was defective and had melted both the wiring and the connector.  At any rate, I recall reading somewhere that the ignition and headlight switch pigtails were available.  Maybe someone who has replaced them can provide part numbers, etc.

Power to the starter relay appears to actually originate through the ignition switch -> neutral safety and comes in on the W/PK.  The R/LB routes this power to the TFI.  You said that you checked the downstream side of all fusible links, but with Links E and C inline, it might be very easy to hit one and miss the other.  If good, I would look closer at the ignition switch and verify power into the switch on the Y  wire(s) and verify power out in run, at the switch on both R/LG and BR/PK.  If good look at fusible link D.

I suspect that you may have had a wiring meltdown which may have shorted circuits, damaged connectors or opened up one or more links.  Unplug connectors and trace.

Good Luck!

88 5.0 bird no start

Reply #5 –
that 88 evtm page is a totally different layout than the 87evtm with respect to the color coding of the red/light blue.

notice how the red light blue transitions back in the game though up on the ign sw , sources as white pink but changes color.

odd.
I almost have to question the red light blue off the starter relay because my red/blue and white/pk wires go direction into the passanger compartment.
If the red / lb wire were to go to the TFI, then its looping back out through another path.


any input to the connections made on the starter relay i mentioned earlier.

anyway, going out to install a "new" ign sw and retest for power at the ign sw itself.

88 5.0 bird no start

Reply #6 –
nope,not a single ounce of power to the ign switch.. tearing up the fuse panel now to get to the yellow wire that bonds to fuse 1,, i wish these seats poped out like the wifes karmanGhia.. flip a lever, slide em forward and they are off the track.

88 5.0 bird no start

Reply #7 –
hey, i just found the black fuse link(s)
This is a major difference from the 87 to 88 evtm.

the black fuse links are located and spare wire looped back into the harness that is underneath the battery tray.
found one of the black fuse links blown, this allows power upstream to the ign switch.

too bad i have a lot of buttoning up to do on the inside.
should be good to go,,, will see

thanks for that evtm page, ~!
 

88 5.0 bird no start

Reply #8 –
To test and verify (not leave it this way), you can jumper around the fuse link... BUT those don't fail without a reason, so you likely have a direct short upstream in your harness, unless of course it was caused by a faulty ignition switch, in which case we can thank God that the fuse link worked and prevented your 'bird from a fiery death.

88 5.0 bird no start

Reply #9 –
OK you have a power distribution issue. The main buss that comes off the solenoid is open. You may have a bad ignition switch but you posted no HAZARDS which are void of the ignition switch. You have an open fuse link. Or a bad connection at the solenoid. To check this get a length of wire and back fees positive battery to the heavy alt lead. If the car gets power back it has an open fuse link or main power lead feeding the cab. Good luck.
I spend money I don't have, To build  cars I don't need, To impress people I don't know

HAVE YOU DRIVEN A FORD LATELY!!

88 5.0 bird no start

Reply #10 –
the 88evtm page posted shows 16awg fuse link, in reality there are three that bond a couple 8awg and to save a long story, the existing green fuse link is in place and good so............

so, to repair i feel comfortable installing dual #12 awg's in place of the tripple 16ga.

16ga is 2580 circular millimeters of copper x 3= 7740 total copper which is equal to a little better than a #12ga single fuse link.

now #12 is good for 30amps at 90deg C in cable tray or in our case in a bundled tight conduit so to speak.
#12 is good for 40A free air at 90degC.

so,, i think i may fuse this up but a little stronger ,,,, i say this because there are likely many more points of high resistance in the car entierly.  Mason typically has about 11.2 v on various circuits with the key off,, i may cure some of that with this... will put a heavy burden on the single green fuse link that feeds all this garbage but hey,, atleast there is still protection.

stay tuned,,

thanks

88 5.0 bird no start

Reply #11 –
I am confused!!! Did you already know where the fuse link failed!! If so why did you post it!! Seems like you just wanted to UP grade the links. So why ask the questions you did. Am i missing something here???
I spend money I don't have, To build  cars I don't need, To impress people I don't know

HAVE YOU DRIVEN A FORD LATELY!!

88 5.0 bird no start

Reply #13 –
Quote from: TOM Renzo;395425
I am confused!!! Did you already know where the fuse link failed!! If so why did you post it!! Seems like you just wanted to UP grade the links. So why ask the questions you did. Am i missing something here???

I had a problem yesterday evening, i troubleshot today and yesterday with some spare time.
Thanks to the 88evtm page, i dug into the harness under the battery tray and found the black fuse links. 


You may not have had time to read my previous posts,

Car is up as of a couple minutes ago.  If i went by the 87 evtm ,i would still be shot gunning it tracing out no power up at the ign switch. 

Car runs,, now gotta button things up with mason tomorrow.

88 5.0 bird no start

Reply #14 –
Well had to be a link it is the only thing that controls all the power feed to the cab and car. And they are around the battery area. Maybe this will help. A fuse link is selected to protect a wire by using one 2 sizes smaller than the wire it protects!!!  So a number 10 wire should have a number 14 protecting it. Hope this helps.
I spend money I don't have, To build  cars I don't need, To impress people I don't know

HAVE YOU DRIVEN A FORD LATELY!!