cypher this casting number help

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cypher this casting number help

December 27, 2011, 11:13:31 AM

Block- D1AE-6015-A2C

Heads- ~info taken with cover off)D1AE-A1C (the A could be a 4, but i think its an A)
additional head info on side shows a stamp "W ITE"

Intake- D2SE-8425-AA

2bbl carb- D2MF ..... C 2d 20

I am pretty sure its a 351M 400 but not sure even with all my casting info i have in my diy link below. I am more interested in the heads.

valve covers are "powered by ford"
With valve covers off, they reveal your typical stock rockers on a 302, nothing special.

cypher this casting number help

Reply #1 – December 27, 2011, 12:20:01 PM

According to THIS, the block is a 400. Obviously 2 bbl Cleveland heads.

cypher this casting number help

Reply #2 – December 28, 2011, 12:14:23 AM

how is it obvious these are clev heads?

this part stumped me because of the missing 3 characters, a D1AE shows up in a couple different areas even in your link.
clev heads would be a nice to have in the parts pile i would think.

cypher this casting number help

Reply #3 – December 28, 2011, 12:39:53 AM

Everything you want to know about a 400/351M...

http://grantorinosport.org/BubbaF250/parts/parts02.html

2V Cleveland heads ain't nothing special....

BTW by the casting numbers it would have to be a 400 or 351C as the 351M didn't start production till the '75 models...

cypher this casting number help

Reply #4 – December 28, 2011, 06:12:45 AM

How are 351c 2 barrel heads not special, they have 2.05" intake valves and 1.65" exhaust valves, thats bigger than any other small block engine every produce other than the 4 barrel 351c. They flow better than any other small block too. They flow more than the engine can take in stock form thats why they put them on the 400s. They might live up to the bigger is not always better saying but with a cam, intake, and a better carb, they scream.

cypher this casting number help

Reply #5 – December 28, 2011, 09:52:29 AM

Well I was referring to the fact they won't fit a Windsor without special machining, manifolds and/or adapter plates... For what it costs to adapt and rebuild them, a new aftermarket Windsor head can be bought... Sorry I didn't make myself clear, was gettin' late...

Now if you want to build a carbed 400 that's a different story, but then I'd look for a 4V Cleveland head...

BTW, Scott that block you have is supposed to have the small block transmission bolt pattern, not 429/460 as most do...

cypher this casting number help

Reply #6 – December 28, 2011, 12:13:32 PM

Be wary of just using casting numbers. I have handled my share of Cleveland parts and I know you can have a 2 bolt block and a 4 bolt block have the same casting number. The 400 block with the small block bellhousing pattern is rare. I have owned one in the past. I would verify by more than a casting number. 400 heads up to 75 and 351C 2V heads are the same head. 75 and up heads (351M & 400) are slightly different. A coolant passage was cast above the exhaust port which causes a different port shape.

cypher this casting number help

Reply #7 – December 28, 2011, 05:31:15 PM

They also have exhaust passages above the exhaust ports like the 302 and 351W. Thats the easest way to tell the difference between the 351M and 351C heads, the 351Ms have EGR ports the the ends of the heads like the 302.

cypher this casting number help

Reply #8 – December 28, 2011, 09:58:40 PM

That is true Bruce M. Some late 351M/400 heads had an "M" cast in the top corners outside the valve cover rail. But this wasn't always the case. It probably had to do with where it was cast as there were two casting plants that cast these parts. Hey jcassity, if you aren't sure what you have post some pictures of the heads and block. I can help you ID them. The block will have a rib that runs adjacent to the dist. bore if it is a 351M/400. A 351C does not have this rib. Hope this helps.

cypher this casting number help

Reply #9 – December 29, 2011, 12:11:22 AM

I can post pics,
I was thinking these heads are probably the ones folks c00ch up to upgrade thier 302's cheaply, 2v or not they do flow better more air in/air out volume and thats and fuel is what its all about.

pics in the next day or two.
I agree with you tom that they arent all that special but the valve size is what its all about on a budget. I may be able to get the oil pan off, these motors are sitting on a trailer easy to get to.

Sorry though, 351/400's confuss the hell out of me during these early D years.

NO egr ports on the heads like the 5.0

cypher this casting number help

Reply #10 – December 29, 2011, 10:57:01 PM

You can buy a nice set of used aftermarket Windsor heads in aluminum for the price it would cost to put those on a 302...

cypher this casting number help

Reply #11 – December 30, 2011, 01:56:35 AM

so the cost possibilities of the iron heads rework parts / labor would exceed that of the Windsor eh? good point.

I was basing this on a broad assumption that the valves "might be good" and all the springs would be shimmed along the lines of .010 and then do refresh lap job on the valve seats and then pay a shop to shave the heads. Granted i would know more once i tested the valve guides.

my younger son will need a car soon and i am pondering parts you sold me a while back along with what i have collected and get the white coug back on the road as a daily driver for him.

I am more interested in if these heads would be a cost effective solution.

cypher this casting number help

Reply #12 – December 30, 2011, 10:03:56 AM

Scott you have a PM...

cypher this casting number help

Reply #13 – December 30, 2011, 10:45:00 AM

TurboCoupe50 is right. To put Cleveland heads on a 302 you will need specific pistons with the right valve reliefs. You will need an intake that matches the deck height and port shape. B & A used to make such an intake. When they sold out someone else made it for a while but I don't know if they are available anymore. There was a rumor that TMeyer in Minnesota was making them again. Although I have not verified this. You may run across one at a swap meet but they usually sell for $300 or more. The machine work to direct the coolant in to the intake isn't complex but it adds to the cost. Putting them on a 351W isn't so hard. You can use a Cleveland intake with spacers. You will then have to fabricate/plumb a coolant block which would house the thermostat. You will still need specific pistons though. Both engines will need specific push rods. I would just build a Cleveland engine in the first place. It will bolt in where any Windsor will. I am a Cleveland engine fan. I have built and raced a few over the years. Right now I have one in a 93 Mustang. It makes about 450HP. I would like to see a picture of the block you were looking at to see if it is in deed a small block bellhousing pattern 400. I am curious whether the casting number holds out.

cypher this casting number help

Reply #14 – December 31, 2011, 05:54:55 AM

Edlebrock makes a manifold for about $300 for either 302 or 351. The special mechine work is drill some 1/8th inch holes into your block, and blocking off a hole or two in the heads with a freeze plug if I remember right. There are a few companies that make the clevor piston to use with a stock rod, but I never got into it enough to really firgure out costs. Do a couple of google's for clevor, and you will find everything you need to know.

But with $300 for a manofold and $200+ for piston, you are half way to aluminum heads.