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Topic: Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10 (Read 11951 times) previous topic - next topic

Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10

Reply #15
I still dont see how this could be oil or oil pressure related, but Ive been wrong before.

Ignition is new, what is left to fall out under load....fuel??
Mike

Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10

Reply #16
Can you get a pressure gauge on the schrader valve and check the fuel pressure?

Darren

83 351W TKO'd T-Bird on the bottle


93 331 Mustang Coupe - 368 rwhp

Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10

Reply #17
Good call.  I used to do that on my Mustang turbo GT.  Hook it up on the schrader valve and route it under the hood and tape the gauge on the windshield.  It would allow me to see it under boost......also alow YOU to see it under LOAD....

It was a cheap setup I got from Harbor Freight locally.... cheap, like $20 or less. Its been awhile.
Mike

Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10

Reply #18
Quote from: softtouch;348587
Lets try to clear up some of this code mystery.
The codes come in three categories. The meaning of some codes change depending on which category it is in.
KOEO gives two categories of codes:
1. On demand codes. These read out first. They are the results of the self tests that run when you "pull codes". They are "faults" present at the time of testing. They are not stored in the KAM(Keep Alive Memory). The only way to get rid of them is to fix the problem.
2. Memory (or continuous) codes. These read out second, after a separator pulse or a 10 on the code reader. These are "faults" collected and stored during drive cycles.
These can be reset by disconnecting the jumper from the self test connector pig tail wire or disconnecting the pig tail wire from the code reader while the codes are reading out.
Rerun the KOEO to verify they cleared.
3. KOER codes.

What codes do you have and what category are they in?

I retrieve codes by using the jumper style method. This:

How to Prepare for the Self-Test

To check for codes without buying a code reader is simple. If your EEC is wired correctly, the engine light works, and there are not any electrical faults in the vehicle you can get the codes out of your EEC.

1. Turn key to OFF.
2. Get a length of wire that can connect the STI to the negative battery terminal or body ground.
3. Ground the Self-Test Input.
4. Get some paper and a pen.
5. Get comfortable in the drivers seat.
6. Try to keep your self from getting distracted from here on.
7. Turn key to RUN.
8. You will hear some relays engage and the fuel pumps prime the system. This is the EEC beginning the test.
9. When the fuel pumps stop be ready to count!


And I get the codes 67, then 1, then 63, then 33.

Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10

Reply #19
Quote from: jpc647;350377
I retrieve codes by using the jumper style method. This:

How to Prepare for the Self-Test

To check for codes without buying a code reader is simple. If your EEC is wired correctly, the engine light works, and there are not any electrical faults in the vehicle you can get the codes out of your EEC.

1. Turn key to OFF.
2. Get a length of wire that can connect the STI to the negative battery terminal or body ground.
3. Ground the Self-Test Input.
4. Get some paper and a pen.
5. Get comfortable in the drivers seat.
6. Try to keep your self from getting distracted from here on.
7. Turn key to RUN.
8. You will hear some relays engage and the fuel pumps prime the system. This is the EEC beginning the test.
9. When the fuel pumps stop be ready to count!


And I get the codes 67, then 1, then 63, then 33.

This proceedure did the KOEO (Key On Engine Off) self test.

67 is an "on demand" code.
1 is the separator pulse.
63 and 33 are memory codes.

Run the test again, and while the memory codes are reading out, disconnect the jumper wire.
Turn the key off. Reconnect the jumper wire. Run the test again. The memory codes 63 and 33 should be gone. Remove the jumper wire.
Start the car and let it idle for 20 minutes. (warm up).
Turn the engine off. Install jumper wire. Start the engine and record the KOER (Key On Engine Running) codes.

Let us know what you get.

Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10

Reply #20
I looked up what each of the codes mean from the two sources I have and this is what they are:

Code 67 (KOEO) shows to be a Neutral Drive Switch (NDS) circuit failure, circuit open, or A/C input high
Code 63 (Continuous Memeory) shows to be a Throttle Position (TP) circuit fault, below minimum voltage
Code 33 (Continuous Memeory) shows to be the EGR vavle not opening properly

Clear the codes out like softtouch suggested above and post back with what you find.  On another note, a code scanner for one of these cars is about $30 at AutoZone and is a whole lot easier than the paper clip trick and it comes with a book that lists the codes.

Darren

83 351W TKO'd T-Bird on the bottle


93 331 Mustang Coupe - 368 rwhp

Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10

Reply #21
Quote from: softtouch;350392
This proceedure did the KOEO (Key On Engine Off) self test.

67 is an "on demand" code.
1 is the separator pulse.
63 and 33 are memory codes.

Run the test again, and while the memory codes are reading out, disconnect the jumper wire.
Turn the key off. Reconnect the jumper wire. Run the test again. The memory codes 63 and 33 should be gone. Remove the jumper wire.
Start the car and let it idle for 20 minutes. (warm up).
Turn the engine off. Install jumper wire. Start the engine and record the KOER (Key On Engine Running) codes.

Let us know what you get.

I have. That is how these three codes are the only ones left. I finally was informed how to fix the code 67, from Joel over at SBFTech. I'm going to do that tomorrow, hopefully. I have changed the TPS, with one I got from vinnie, and the code went away for like 2 days. So I'm not sure about that. I have also changed out the EGR valve twice, and I have not been able to get the code to not show up. However, with the KOEO test, the EGR valve not detecting might not be a problem. 

Again, I have cleared the codes, and these are the three that have stayed.

Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10

Reply #22
Quote from: jpc647;350446
I have. That is how these three codes are the only ones left. I finally was informed how to fix the code 67, from Joel over at SBFTech. I'm going to do that tomorrow, hopefully. I have changed the TPS, with one I got from vinnie, and the code went away for like 2 days. So I'm not sure about that. I have also changed out the EGR valve twice, and I have not been able to get the code to not show up. However, with the KOEO test, the EGR valve not detecting might not be a problem. 

Again, I have cleared the codes, and these are the three that have stayed.

Are you saying you cleared the codes and they reoccured after driving the car or they never cleared?

Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10

Reply #23
Quote from: softtouch;350454
Are you saying you cleared the codes and they reoccured after driving the car or they never cleared?

Well the code 67 never goes away. The TPS one did, temporarily for a little while, and the EGR one did not go away. Someone posted on one of my other threads it might be because I did the KOEO test.

Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10

Reply #24
Quote from: jpc647;350477
The TPS one did, temporarily for a little while, and the EGR one did not go away.

This statement is confusing. The reason I asked you to rerun the KOEO after resetting the memory codes was to insure the program in the EEC was working right and resetting the codes. I am gussing you are operating from memory or notes and did not actually do it.

Quote
Someone posted on one of my other threads it might be because I did the KOEO test.

The KOEO and KOER tests will not set any memory codes.

The KOEO test will set an "on demand" EGR code if the voltage from the EVP (Egr Valve Position) sensor is out of specs for a closed valve condition.
The KOER test will set an "on damand" EGR code if the voltage from the EVP sensor is out of specs for an open valve condition.

Memory codes are stored in the KAM (Keep Alive Memory) while driving the car.  If they only show up  as memory codes and not on demand codes, they are intermittent failures.

Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10

Reply #25
Symptoms kind of match up to an EGR problem.

Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10

Reply #26
Quote from: softtouch;350506
This statement is confusing. The reason I asked you to rerun the KOEO after resetting the memory codes was to insure the program in the EEC was working right and resetting the codes. I am gussing you are operating from memory or notes and did not actually do it. .

I actually did clear the codes. But again, immediately the code 67 one kept coming back, but that has been fixed.
Quote from: softtouch;350506
The KOEO and KOER tests will not set any memory codes.
The KOEO test will set an "on demand" EGR code if the voltage from the EVP (Egr Valve Position) sensor is out of specs for a closed valve condition.
The KOER test will set an "on damand" EGR code if the voltage from the EVP sensor is out of specs for an open valve condition.

Memory codes are stored in the KAM (Keep Alive Memory) while driving the car.  If they only show up  as memory codes and not on demand codes, they are intermittent failures.
I appreciate the information on the “on demand” EGR operations. The codes are always in the stored memory codes, or the KAM. Because the problem happened again tonight,  I ran codes when I got home, and I got 11, 11, then a 1, then 63, 33, 63, 33.
Now I’ve been told a couple of things on how to clear the stored codes. Some say remove the pin in the process of the test, other say disconnect the battery. So I did both last time (just over a week ago) when I fixed code 67. Therefore, these must have popped up again. Therefore they both showed up again. I have swapped them both, but I’ll go out there tonight and swap my last EGR valve and see. Could it be that the codes are not deleting? What else can I do to delete them?
Now the problem happened on the way home from work. This time, I was doing 83 on my speedometer, which is roughly 76mph. I started to ascend up a fairly steep hill, and when under load, the car sorta losses some ohmpf, but I think all stock 5.0’s probably do. Anyway, the check engine light comes on, and I feel a jerk, almost like a down shift, except it doesn’t downshift. If I push on the gas a little to accelerate, the light goes off and the problem goes away. But the light came on, so that means the computer should store a code, right!?

Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10

Reply #27
Quote from: flylear45;350507
Symptoms kind of match up to an EGR problem.

Interesting, I do get an EGR code. Maybe there is some merrit.

Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10

Reply #28
Have you tried a new TPS (read #21) or at least checking the one you have to make sure it is at a good starting voltage and when swept from idle to WOT that it reads smoothly and has no dead spots?  Another thing you could be dealing with is the black and white connectors between the main EEC harness and the injector harness.  I did not read where you have checked fuel pressure (posts #7, #17, & #18).  I would think the the fuel pressure would be something that you would need to eliminate quickly.

Darren

83 351W TKO'd T-Bird on the bottle


93 331 Mustang Coupe - 368 rwhp

Check Engine Lights Flashes-The Saga Continues 2/10

Reply #29
Quote from: Aerocoupe;351379
Have you tried a new TPS (read #21) or at least checking the one you have to make sure it is at a good starting voltage and when swept from idle to WOT that it reads smoothly and has no dead spots?  Another thing you could be dealing with is the black and white connectors between the main EEC harness and the injector harness.  I did not read where you have checked fuel pressure (posts #7, #17, & #18).  I would think the the fuel pressure would be something that you would need to eliminate quickly.

Darren

Yes, I have checked the TPS. A few times. I've swapped it to another one as well. I checked the new one for dead spots and voltages as well. I got nothing out of the ordinary. I checked the unit bone cold, and when the motor was warm (just to see if there was a difference). They seemed fine. However, I did have a problem with the engine revving up a bit when at a stop light, etc causing the car to lurch forward a little. The changing of the TPS seemed to fix this. I could be a coincidence, but after swapping it, it hasn't done it.

The EGR valve has been swapped. With two others. I was going to try one last EGR valve last night, but I was too cold. I'll try to get out there tonight.

I think the problem is I had a couple of different threads, each with one single problem, but in each I posted the couple of engine codes I have, so each thread sorta got intertwined. The fuel pressure was checked and appears fine. That was in this thread post 45:
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?30462-Fuel-Pumps-Anyone-who-has-bought-a-new-one&highlight=