No Run Problem

Topic: No Run Problem (Read 2990 times) previous topic - next topic

No Run Problem

July 26, 2009, 11:40:36 PM

Hey I am a little stumped! I am generally good with my own vehicle maintenance but now I have a no run problem with the engine of the 1984 Tbird 5.0.

Today I decided to get under the hood and do some work. I changed the plugs, wires and oil.

Before I did all this today I had no problem with the engine starting and running thought it was running rough.

The first thing I did was change the plugs. All are gapped at .050. The emission label said gap between .048 and .052. All other reference material says gap at .050

Next I changed the cap, rotor and wires. I took the old cap off with the wires still attached and replaced the wires one at a time starting counter-clockwise from cylinder #1 marked on the cap. I started the car and it would not start. Then I noticed that the old wires still attached to the cap were all one position over clockwise, so the mark on the cap was not actually 1. Both the old and new cap have the 1 in the same position. I made the adjustment and the engine started andran fine. The engine ran much better after changing the plugs, wires, cap and rotor. After being satisfied with that I proceeded to change the oil.

Before changing the oil I put in some Motor Flush, ran it a few minutes and turned it off. Then I changed the oil. The engine started right up, ran good for about 3 minutes then suddenly stalled. I tried to restart it. It ran for a little bit but if I applied the gas pedal it stumbled and stalled. After that, the engine would not restart after multiple tries. A couple of times it acted like it wanted to fire up but didn't. At this point I had drained the battery and needed to jump it off using my Mustang. I let the Mustang run quite a while with the jumper cables attached to the Tbird before I tried starting the Tbird again. I attempted to start the Tbird again and now it repeatedly turns over but will not fire.

Now I am concerned. Ignition module or coil failure? Oil pump or screen clogged? Fuel starvation? God forbid no more compression? I do hear the pump prime before each start. I just added some fresh gasoline so that it would not run out before doing all the work today.

I hate this car has no oil pressure gauge. Matter of fact I did not even see an oil light. Does the "engine" light function as a low oil pressure warning? I don't recall it coming on while the engine was running. Of course it always stays on when the engine is not running or it stalls.

I feel like I could have done something wrong to make it not run anymore since I initiated work on it today. Before I had no trouble with the engine running despite running a little rough. I checked behind all my work and I don't see anything I have done incorrectly.

No Run Problem

Reply #1 – July 27, 2009, 03:26:49 AM

I would see if you could test some parts or pull codes... I'm not sure if you can pull codes off an 84 the same way you can a 86-88... I am not alot of help here, sorry. I would check the PIP in the distributor.

No Run Problem

Reply #2 – July 27, 2009, 08:53:29 AM

This car sat for a number of years correct????? Im not completely sure,.. but in your fuel tank, theres a small hose that goes from your fuel pump, to the line on the tank, its probably dry rotted and is just spitting gas back into the tank...
If its possible, when you try to start the car, listen for the fuel pump,.. if it kicks on... you should be getting fuel,... the other way to check, is hold open the valve on the fuel rail...while an assistant tries turning over the car,..
If gas SHOOTS out, the pump/ hose is fine, and your problem is somewhere else...
But if the pump turns on, but fuel only tricles from the rail,... the hose is shot......

EDIT***** i dont know exactly what setup you have , but others will chime in to correct me if im wrong.....
CFI?

No Run Problem

Reply #3 – July 27, 2009, 09:15:34 AM

I agree about the fuel pump rubber hose. My 84 V6 was in storage for years and shortly after I got it it just quit running but I could still hear the fuel pumps (it has 2) priming. I unhooked the hose from the rail mounted pump and had an assistant turn the key to prime. Nothing came out so I figured it was the in-tank pump that wasn't working and bought a replacement. When I dropped the tank (topped off full of course...) i saw that the problem was the rubber hose had pretty much fallen apart, but I went ahead and replaced the pump anyways while the tank was down. Hope this helps.

No Run Problem

Reply #4 – July 27, 2009, 09:55:04 AM

Thanks for the replies guys! I will be certain to check that hose out. It's still strange though because before all this happened I did not seem to have any sort of fuel delivery problem. I do still hear the fuel pump prime when I turn on the key. After the first restart it was running but applying the gas pedal seemed to stall it. After that it would not start again.

Another obvious thing that I thought about is the infamous ignition module failure! This car appears to have the original Motorcraft module and yesterday was the first day I ran the engine for an extended period of time. That may also explain why it was running fine then all of a sudden it stalled for no reason and would not restart. I should go ahead and replace it anyway since it is so old.

It was getting late in the evening with no daylight to keep working on it so I spent the rest of the evening investigating for a possible diagnosis.

No Run Problem

Reply #5 – July 27, 2009, 10:27:18 AM

I would make sure to check the codes and use a fuel pressure gauge before getting too far into it.

No Run Problem

Reply #6 – July 27, 2009, 11:08:27 AM

The 84 does have an oil light! Red light engine light is you oil light. When the car is running it should be OFF/unlit. Then don't forget that 84's have twin fuel pumps one in the tank and one in line next to the filter. As far as checking the codes easy to do. I've never seen the check engine light in mine to tell me when there is a code. Not sure if maybe just the bulb is out or maybe the 83-84's don't have them.

Stuckman

No Run Problem

Reply #7 – July 27, 2009, 04:25:35 PM

if the car ran fine before, id imagine everything is fine... it really sounds like that hose...but then again, i didnt know about the second pump..(my car doesnt have it....

NOt A HIJACK ATTEMPT.......but how many of you guys think a lot of these cars were junked because someone didnt know about this pita little hose issiue???

No Run Problem

Reply #8 – July 27, 2009, 04:26:58 PM

im having the same kinda problem.
im getting gas to the injectors but not current.i am getting 12v on one side,but not 5volts to the ground.
i can jump the injectors with a battery source and they spray fine.hook everything all back up..no fire at injectors.
i put on a new igniton module,still not injector fire.

No Run Problem

Reply #9 – July 27, 2009, 11:20:01 PM

Thanks everyone for chiming in to help me. It seems everyone I mentioned this to at work today thinks it is likely no fuel pressure or delivery. I am inclined now to believe that it has to be a fuel delivery problem, especially since it kept stalling after pushing the accelerator pedal when it was running the last couple of starts before it would not start again at all. If in fact my car has two pumps I need to take that in consideration. At this point I don't believe it's the ignition module. Gotta wait until Wednesday which is my next day off to look into this. I am glad I am not depending on this Tbird to be a daily driver!

No Run Problem

Reply #10 – July 27, 2009, 11:23:14 PM

Quote from: ipsd;284056

The 84 does have an oil light! Red light engine light is you oil light. When the car is running it should be OFF/unlit. Then don't forget that 84's have twin fuel pumps one in the tank and one in line next to the filter. As far as checking the codes easy to do. I've never seen the check engine light in mine to tell me when there is a code. Not sure if maybe just the bulb is out or maybe the 83-84's don't have them.

Stuckman

I suspected the engine light might be the same as the oil light. I don't see a check engine light on my gauges. Talk about spartan gauges and lights! Then again I am spoiled by my 2008 Mustang and checking OBD II codes on so many newer cars.

No Run Problem

Reply #11 – July 28, 2009, 07:33:10 AM

Quote from: massCougarxr7;284036

This car sat for a number of years correct????? Im not completely sure,.. but in your fuel tank, theres a small hose that goes from your fuel pump, to the line on the tank, its probably dry rotted and is just spitting gas back into the tank...
If its possible, when you try to start the car, listen for the fuel pump,.. if it kicks on... you should be getting fuel,... the other way to check, is hold open the valve on the fuel rail...while an assistant tries turning over the car,..
If gas SHOOTS out, the pump/ hose is fine, and your problem is somewhere else...
But if the pump turns on, but fuel only tricles from the rail,... the hose is shot......

EDIT***** i dont know exactly what setup you have , but others will chime in to correct me if im wrong.....
CFI?

x 2...

My 89 Lincoln MK VII did the exact same thing. After messing with it for a long time, I took the gas tank down and sure enough the 3-4 inch long rubber hose in the tank was soft and falling apart.

Gas just trickled out of the pressure test port on the engine but the pump sounded fine.

By the way, that M7 sat around for 3 years. Gas does go bad.

No Run Problem

Reply #12 – July 28, 2009, 09:26:38 AM

Quote from: 83-88T-Bird Guy;284181

x 2...

My 89 Lincoln MK VII did the exact same thing. After messing with it for a long time, I took the gas tank down and sure enough the 3-4 inch long rubber hose in the tank was soft and falling apart.

Gas just trickled out of the pressure test port on the engine but the pump sounded fine.

By the way, that M7 sat around for 3 years. Gas does go bad.

I definitely need to check that hose now that a few of you had that problem.

The gas I am using is indeed fresh although I have not kept a lot in there because it does go bad if it sits too long.

No Run Problem

Reply #13 – July 29, 2009, 09:46:43 PM

I am definitely getting spark. Today I poured some gas in the throttle body and it ran for a few moments. It's definitely a fuel delivery problem. In the throttle body I am getting pressured fuel in the rail because I pushed in the injection service port valve and fuel sprayed out. Whether it is enough pressure there I am not sure. It does seem no fuel is coming through the injectors. It seems unlikely to me both injectors would go bad at the same exact time. I am concerned if the injectors are getting the proper voltage and pluse to operate. I still have not ruled out low fuel pressure.

No Run Problem

Reply #14 – July 29, 2009, 09:54:12 PM

check ur voltage at the injector clips.
should be 12v on one and 5 volts on the other.at both clips.
thats my problem.i have the 12 v but not the 5.i was told its either the ignition module or eec.i replace dmy eec,still no voltage.im in the process of replacing the eec.
u can also use jumper wires to see if ur injectors will spray.remove the injector clips,and give it some voltage.one pin will be +...the other ..-
turn the key to on,let the pump give it gas.do one injector.turn off car,turn back on,do other injector

dont do it alot,may hurt the injector.
try that,let us know if they will spray.