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No Run Problem

Reply #15
Quote from: 1983bamabird;284446
check ur voltage at the injector clips.
should be 12v on one and 5 volts on the other.at both clips.
thats my problem.i have the 12 v but not the 5.i was told its either the ignition module or eec.i replace dmy eec,still no voltage.im in the process of replacing the eec.
u can also use jumper wires to see if ur injectors will spray.remove the injector clips,and give it some voltage.one pin will be +...the other ..-
turn the key to on,let the pump give it gas.do one injector.turn off car,turn back on,do other injector

dont do it alot,may hurt the injector.
try that,let us know if they will spray.


Thanks for the info. I will try this later. I looked into the possibilty of checking injector voltage today. Something tells the injectors when to spray and I was also wondering if it is a partial failure of the ignition module or not. I am getting spark. I certainly hope the EEC didn't go bad.

No Run Problem

Reply #16
eec is 98 at advanced auto.cheaper than 2 injectors
1983 5.0L

No Run Problem

Reply #17
Quote from: 1983bamabird;284465
eec is 98 at advanced auto.cheaper than 2 injectors


Yeah I priced the injectors! Ouch! I have a hard time believing they could both suddenly go bad.

No Run Problem

Reply #18
Ummm by squirt/spray, i mean like across your engine bay,... a afew inches of distance, imo, isnt enough.....
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Just enjoyin the ride!!!!

No Run Problem

Reply #19
Quote from: massCougarxr7;284506
Ummm by squirt/spray, i mean like across your engine bay,... a few inches of distance, imo, isnt enough.....


Thats what I thought considering 35-40 psi should shoot out like crazy! So I will be investigating everything at the tank for the problem.

No Run Problem

Reply #20
even if u had really low pressure,the injector would at least drip.if the injector isn't spraying a dribble,and u know u r getting gas to them,its electrical.IMO
a good firing injector and weak pump would dribble gas.no injector pulse and you will not dribble anything :burnout:
1983 5.0L

No Run Problem

Reply #21
Quote from: 1983bamabird;284615
even if u had really low pressure,the injector would at least drip.if the injector isn't spraying a dribble,and u know u r getting gas to them,its electrical.IMO
a good firing injector and weak pump would dribble gas.no injector pulse and you will not dribble anything :burnout:


Well it doesn't seem like to me it's spraying a dribble. I need to check it again now that the fuel and started fluid I poured into the TBI has dried out to see if it gets wet. I am wondering if the injectors are getting the correct pulse. I quickly tested for voltage to the injectors with the key on and I need to do it again now that I have more info on the voltage I am looking for.

No Run Problem

Reply #22
An engine needs 3 basic things to run.  Spark, Fuel, and Compression.  Since the last is the most difficult to test, start with the first.

Have you checked spark?  Take one of your old plugs, stuff it into the wire coming from the ignition coil to the center tap on the cap and rest the base on some bare metal (i use the neg post on the battery).  Set the key to run and crank the car over a few times at the solenoid.  Do you have a bright blue spark?

If you do have spark. Then plug your coil back into the cap.  Can you spin the distributor body?  If so, the tiedown is loose or missing and maybe you bumped it while working on it.  Try rotating it left or right while cranking.

Try and dump some fuel (tablespoon or two) into the TBI with the butterfly open.  Crank it over.  Does it run for a few an stop?  If so, then its a fuel issue.

Let is know what you find from those tests, they should identify the problem area and we can then help you home in on the issue.

No Run Problem

Reply #23
Here is a good way to check.  If you are comfortable re-seating/aligning the distributor.

Unbolt the distributor.  Pull it free from the cam gear but leave it touching the block (leaving the wires attached).  Remove the cap and with the car in run, rotate the rotor button (counter clock-wise).  The injectors should fire and the spark plugs should pop.  You should be able to get a good close look at the injectors firing.  When do it on my MPFI with the upper intake off, I can easily hear the injector spraying.

-DZ

No Run Problem

Reply #24
Quote from: danzajax;284636
Here is a good way to check.  If you are comfortable re-seating/aligning the distributor.

Unbolt the distributor.  Pull it free from the cam gear but leave it touching the block (leaving the wires attached).  Remove the cap and with the car in run, rotate the rotor button (counter clock-wise).  The injectors should fire and the spark plugs should pop.  You should be able to get a good close look at the injectors firing.  When do it on my MPFI with the upper intake off, I can easily hear the injector spraying.

-DZ


i may be wrong but on my 83,there isnt anyway for the dist to fire the injector.
1983 5.0L

No Run Problem

Reply #25
Quote from: danzajax;284636
Here is a good way to check.  If you are comfortable re-seating/aligning the distributor.

Unbolt the distributor.  Pull it free from the cam gear but leave it touching the block (leaving the wires attached).  Remove the cap and with the car in run, rotate the rotor button (counter clock-wise).  The injectors should fire and the spark plugs should pop.  You should be able to get a good close look at the injectors firing.  When do it on my MPFI with the upper intake off, I can easily hear the injector spraying.

-DZ


Thanks for chiming in to help!

I got your original post notified to my email before you edited it.

I definitely have spark.

I dumped some fuel in the throttle body and it ran fine for a bit and stalled.

It's definitely a fuel issue. Now I have to determine if the injectors are working or not. I haven't had time to work on the car in the past two days to try what you are suggesting with the pulse signal to the injectors. I need to look closer to see if the injectors are spraying.

One thing I did discover is that the insulation to all the wires going into both the ignition module and fuel injector connectors has become brittle exposing some of the wires bare in small spots. I checked to make sure none are touching or snapped in half.  I definitely have to fix this issue.

Where does the injectors get a pulse signal from? The ignition module or EEC?

No Run Problem

Reply #26
check ur voltage at the injectors.one injector has 2 pins.check one pin then the other with the key in the one position.should get 12v on one pin.have someone turn the car over and the other voltage should be 5v on the other pin
let us know
1983 5.0L

No Run Problem

Reply #27
Let me try to answer some of your questions.
The red "engine" light is duel purpose, Low oil pressure or engine overheating.
Your car has no check engine light.
The red wire on the fuel injectors should be 12v with the ignition in run or start.
The EEC provides ground pulses to the tan wires to operate the injectors.
The EEC will only pulse the injectors if the engine is turning over.
The EEC knows the engine is turning over if it is receiving PIP pulses from the ignition module. (danzajax's procedure tricks the EEC into thinking the engine is turning over)

Jumpering 12v and ground directly to the injectors can destroy the injectors)

The shop manual method to test if the injectors are pulsing is :
1. Install your fuel pressure gauge.
2. Pressurize the fuel by doing several "primes" and confirm that it can hold the pressure with the pump stopped at a nominal 39 psi.
3. Unplug the fuel pump relay.
4. Crank the engine for 5 seconds.
5. The fuel pressure should drop to between 10 and 20 psi.

There is a specialized test light call a noid light for testing for injector pulses. It has connectors that match up to your injector connector.
Or you can make do with a regular test light that you can use for other stuff. (note, not a self powered continuity tester type light)

So off you go to the car parts store for a fuel pressure gauge and a test light.

No Run Problem

Reply #28
Quote from: softtouch;284833
Let me try to answer some of your questions.
The red "engine" light is duel purpose, Low oil pressure or engine overheating.
Your car has no check engine light.
The red wire on the fuel injectors should be 12v with the ignition in run or start.
The EEC provides ground pulses to the tan wires to operate the injectors.
The EEC will only pulse the injectors if the engine is turning over.
The EEC knows the engine is turning over if it is receiving PIP pulses from the ignition module. (danzajax's procedure tricks the EEC into thinking the engine is turning over)

Jumpering 12v and ground directly to the injectors can destroy the injectors)

The shop manual method to test if the injectors are pulsing is :
1. Install your fuel pressure gauge.
2. Pressurize the fuel by doing several "primes" and confirm that it can hold the pressure with the pump stopped at a nominal 39 psi.
3. Unplug the fuel pump relay.
4. Crank the engine for 5 seconds.
5. The fuel pressure should drop to between 10 and 20 psi.

There is a specialized test light call a noid light for testing for injector pulses. It has connectors that match up to your injector connector.
Or you can make do with a regular test light that you can use for other stuff. (note, not a self powered continuity tester type light)

So off you go to the car parts store for a fuel pressure gauge and a test light.


now what he and I both need are the voltage checks on the ignition module to see if its sending that signal to the eec.
when turning over,what wires have what voltage from the ignition module.
I replaced my ignition module but would love to know the voltage outputs because my wiring is suspect also.old,corroded wires etc.
1983 5.0L

No Run Problem

Reply #29
Quote from: 1983bamabird;284851
now what he and I both need are the voltage checks on the ignition module to see if its sending that signal to the eec.
when turning over,what wires have what voltage from the ignition module.
I replaced my ignition module but would love to know the voltage outputs because my wiring is suspect also.old,corroded wires etc.

According to your 'public profile" you have an 83 5.0
You have an EEC III system with a Duraspark III ignition.

This is a different animal than the 84 EEC IV with the TFI ignition.

In your case the "PIP" pulses come from a crankshaft position sensor on the front of the engine and go directly to the EEC.

On the 84 the pulses come from an emitter in the distributor and go through the TFI ignition module that's attached to the side of the distributor.

In either case they are pulses and I don't know any voltage check for them.