How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs

Topic: How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs (Read 9678 times) previous topic - next topic

How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs

Reply #15 – November 09, 2008, 04:11:51 AM

Quote from: ipsd;241922

4.This I think you don't fully understand the way a speaker works. You want to change the resistance of a speaker move the cone. Don't believe me hook your meter to a speaker set the meter to ohm's and push the cone watch the meter move. The resistance changes depending what part and how much of the coil is inside the magnetic field that is created to make the cone move. Once you hook up your meter you will see that the speaker isn't the same exact ohms as printed on it. Close but some are lower and some are higher. As of changing the resistance without taking it apart I think you understand you can. So as the speaker moves the load changes constantly.
.

This is another cool thing you brought up,, but trust me, alot of this stuff your talkin about is purdy simple.

what you are seeing by pushing on the cone is the inductor passing through the magnetic field produced by the stationary magnet.
when you pass the "coil" , ie- wire- through a magnetic field, you have current flow. Hows that for not knowing how a speaker works?

since your meter is set on ohms, your seeing something of a faux reading because your actually seeing a voltage drop vary with the movement of the inductor due to your meter being the 9v power source. This is gonna happen anyway with the speakers operating or in a static state like you meaured.

speakers in parallel will have the same voltage drop across each speaker but the current is spit across each branch.

speakers in series will have proportional voltage drops less than source but have max current flow.

ask around,, speakers wired in series produce the biggiest bang for your buck, but also use more current (or better said- tends to blow speakers more quickly). Ie- voltage goes down, current goes up;)

Why would this be?????????? because you cant change watts,, its designed into the device., and is the very reason you pay more money for a higher wattage system,, better yet,,,,,,, the very best RMS system compared to PEAK.

I think we are both saying the same thing just differntly. Its kind like do electrons flow from neg to pos or is it the "hole" that flows from pos to neg.
Either way, i do disagree with your series and parallel comparrison.
Please let me know if i am wrong or not, I was always under the impression speakers wired in series created the best sound if your pocket was deep enough to keep from blowing them.

How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs

Reply #16 – November 09, 2008, 08:09:52 AM

Quote

good to see your throttled back a little. your power source was not clairified but two amps may have brought on power issues.

You are right, I did not clarify my power source. About a year ago I Installed a 150 amp altenator. The stereo equipment I am using is as follows:

HEAD UNIT
Pioneer AVH-P4000DVD
In-Dash Double-DIN 6" Touchscreen Monitor DVD/MP3/CD Receiver

AMP
PowerAcoustik Class A/B Series #A6004HP - 600 Watt 4-Channel Amp
Max Power: 600 Watts
RMS @ 4 Ohms: 4 X 70 Watts
RMS @ 2 Ohms: 4 X 85 Watts
RMS Bridged: 2 X 170 Watts
Full Mosfet Power Supply
Variable High Pass: 150Hz - 1.5Khz
Variable Low Pass: 40Hz - 120Hz
Hi/Low Level Input With Floating Ground
18 dB Bass Boost @ 40 Hz
Three Way Protection
Tri-Mode Capable
2 Ohm Stable
System Dsitress Indicator
LIne Output
4 Gauge Power / Ground Connectors
Gold Plated RCA Connectors

DASH SPEAKERS
KFC-1082ie
3-Way Speaker System
Max Power: 140 Watts
3-way 4" speakers
Fiber-textured mica-injected polypropylene woofer
Urethane surround
1" PEI balanced dome tweeter
1/2" ceramic flat tweeter
4-ohm impedance
Frequency response: 45-22,000 Hz
Sensitivity: 91 dB
Depth: 1-13/16"

DOOR SPEAKERS
Memphis 15-PRC63 - Memphis 6.5" 3 Way Triaxial Speakers
6.5" Triaxial Speakers
50W RMS Power Handling
100W Peak Power Handling
Polypropylene cone
Poly-aluminum dome tweeter
Kapton voice coil
Polyurethane Surround

REAR DECK SPEAKERS
Memphis I5-PR693
RMS/Peak 60/120 watts
Sensitivity 90 dB
Magnet Size 14 oz.
Mounting Depth 3"

SUBWOOFERS (2)
P110S4 10" subwoofer
10" 4-ohm subwoofer
molded polypropylene woofer cone
power range: 50-150 watts RMS
peak power handling: 300 watts
frequency response: 20-200 Hz
sensitivity: 85.5 dB
4-ohm impedance
top-mount depth: 4-15/16"
sealed box volume: 0.65 cubic feet
ported box volume: 1.25 cubic feet

How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs

Reply #17 – November 09, 2008, 01:44:38 PM

we can start with this diagram and let the guys who do this everyday tune it better.

as you can see, there really isnt any reason to leave the deck speakers on the head unit but its your call.

of the two options below, there are a few more depending on how "series" / "bridged" you want to go.

I would highly suggest you go to radio shack or wherever and get a passive crossover for the subs. apparently your mids and highs are 3way so you are ok on those two frequencys. If anything, get passive crossovers for them to filter out the bass, leave the bass to the subs and save money on blowing mids / lows later on.

How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs

Reply #18 – November 09, 2008, 02:12:59 PM

Example of quality

RMS means the heat effect on a sine wave, you pay for this part:hick: What it means is the closer the lable says the RMS is to the "peak" 600w, the better the amp.
You can just simply multiply the face value of the amp x 70.7% (.707) and come up with the "TRUE RMS".
What all this means is how much py noise is present at full volume. The less py noise, the more you paid for the amp. Better said is at what point in your volume does the py noise start such as at what percentage of volume do you have max clean noise before the py noise starts.

lets look at your amp

advertised watts is 600w
lets use the bridged 2 channel option which says its rated for 170w.
classroom math for rms is 600w x .707 rms= 424.2w
424.2w / 2channels = 212w
Humm, that does not match what your stamp says....
so we can take the two numbers and come up with the py noise point in volume.
170w/212w = 80%
So,,, at 80% volume, you will have py noise from there on up.

From my eyeballing of amps,, it appears that the so called RMS numbers (ROOM MEANS SQUARED) is much much closer to what we call "AVERAGE POWER" or 63.7% of the total stamped value of wattage -
In the same example of a bridged amp 2 channel =170w
600w amp x .637= 382w
382w / 2 channels = 191.1w per channel.
py noise range ... 170w/191w= 89%
So, at 89% volume, you will have py noise from there on up.

Back when i was into systems pretty big, i would walk around the sterio shops and use this information to guage the quality of the amp. Wouldnt you know it,, the higher the RMS number , the more costly the amp was.

I also concluded very rarely do amps show thier RMS value. The math is there right on the unit, your just missing one part ,, the truth about the amps true rms value.
I have concluded most amps are "less than average",,ie- average power or .637 x peak watts.

If you happen across an amp in which the math shows the rating to be at average or better, your gonna have yourself a good amp., just dont blow it up.

How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs

Reply #19 – November 09, 2008, 08:19:39 PM

As for Watts not just adding up. Once again I'm sorry I was so unclear but you cant just take the power from one amp and add that to another amp and get x amount of power.

As for the power wire Custom T stated he has 4ga power wire. Not sure about you but yes you can exceed the need and want bigger. But in most car audio systems 4ga is more than enough. Now if you were going with a sound off type setup hell yes you need bigger wire. I also guess you missed the post were I told him BIGGER WIRE IS ALWAYS BETTER. Oh and if you are dumb enough to run any sorta power wire without a fuse to keep said car fire from happening I guess you deserve it.

As for witch way does the power flow come on buddy everyone knows its from the positive to the negative. NOT The power flows out the negative side of the battery and back into the battery via the positive. If the power came out the positive you would be charging your alternator.

As for the speaker readings with the ohm meter. Yes we only get those readings because of the 9vlt battery in the unit. But the part I think you are missing is that we are measuring the resistance of the coil. To measure resistance we have to have some thing to compare it to . I was only pointing out that the load changes as the speaker moves. So the load does change even though we didn't tear it apart and re work/re wire the speaker. Also if you take the same meter and use it to measure the load of speakers wired in series and parallel you will see that we changed the load also.

AS for the parallel setup you are right each speaker see the same amount of power all divided equally. The amp also uses a lot more current because in this configuration it doubles the power output every time you cut the load in half. Then in a series setup you have each speaker suck up all the power it can and then pass the left overs to the next in line. Speakers just like light bulbs the first one will get full power then the next will get 75%,then 50%,25% or so to speak.( the first light will be bright and the 2nd will be dimmer and so on for each bulb in the line.The amp also uses a lot less current because each time you stack on another speaker you double the load and the amp power cuts in half. That is why you blow so many speakers in your series is because the #1 reason for a speaker to blow is due to being underpowered. As for asking around I think you need to ask around. I know that car audio gear especially high end sub woofer amps and the like are designed to make the most power in a low impedance load like what you get when you wire speakers in parallel.

As for RMS and peak watts. Your right the lower quality amps show you that Peak power number to give you those warm and fuzzies. But a real high quality amp will tell you RMS not peak power on the amp. take for instance Back in my day a Rockford Fosgate punch 45 amp would make at minimum of 45watts. They would even give you the test sheet that told you what it spec out to on the bench test. The last amp I bought didn't even give a peak spec it only laid out the RMS rating. It also can handle down to a 1/2ohm load.

Custom T sorry to jack your thread! Sounds like you are getting and eye full of us. Stick with what you got. Sounds like you are on the right track for what you want. I will add that if you really want more low end play with the location and direction of your BOX. The sound waves bounce back and forth in the truck and can cancel each other out. All in all if that doesn't work you might just try sealing the front side of box to the interior cabin and sealing the back wave inside the truck so you won't get that cancelation. Kinda like free air setup but with the box attached to the separator you installed.

How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs

Reply #20 – November 09, 2008, 08:46:26 PM

Quote from: ipsd;242357

As for Watts not just adding up. Once again I'm sorry I was so unclear but you cant just take the power from one amp and add that to another amp and get x amount of power.

[COLOR="Blue"]LOL, i never said the bridge two amps together,,, I was saying the two amps demand in watts on the alternator. [/COLOR]

As for witch way does the power flow come on buddy everyone knows its from the positive to the negative. NOT The power flows out the negative side of the battery and back into the battery via the positive. If the power came out the positive you would be charging your alternator.

[COLOR="blue"]Ahh,, but you see electron current flow does always and forever flow Negative to Positive. I know must think im an idiot but its true.
The gap in between two electron repelling eachother shifts itself from pos to neg. THis is called Hole flow. Most people just say pos to neg because its easier to get your head around.[/COLOR]

Custom T sorry to jack your thread! Sounds like you are getting and eye full of us.

[COLOR="blue"]Why, now hes got so much valuable information to print from you (a guy who did it for a living) and a guy like me who had a little to offer as well. I think its about time we get an audio thread that gets people a good start before they burn up the car. The purchase of a system is one thing,, the existing infrustructure of the car is a totally different topic that left not discussed could lead to bad wiring issues. We see it everyday, cram and stuff that system in only to hear complaints later of electrical problem.

[/COLOR]

.......

How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs

Reply #21 – November 09, 2008, 09:33:19 PM

Why, now hes got so much valuable information to print from you (a guy who did it for a living) and a guy like me who had a little to offer as well. I think its about time we get an audio thread that gets people a good start before they burn up the car. The purchase of a system is one thing,, the existing infrustructure of the car is a totally different topic that left not discussed could lead to bad wiring issues. We see it everyday, cram and stuff that system in only to hear complaints later of electrical problem.

That sounds like one smart Idear you have there. I will add that if you want we can but please don't use that color text again its like trying to pick needles out of a haystack with my Midnight setting I run in this forum.

How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs

Reply #22 – November 10, 2008, 07:23:13 AM

Well, glad to see you two come together. As stated earlier I decided to keep the rear deck connected to the head unit, just going to change the speakers out so all my speakers match. I should be good all around. With all the information you guys gave my head is still swimming from it. :D Anyway, thanks for all the input and yes, you need to do a sticky on installing an audio system with the diagrams (thanks for those they are very useful).

No problem on hijacking the thread, a lot came out of it and hopefully it will be useful for others to come.

Peace,
Custom T

How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs

Reply #23 – November 29, 2008, 10:55:55 AM

In addition to JCassidy's diagram, you'll notice you have an unused channel on your amp. You can either use this to drive your deck speakers (you'll need more power to move those planned 350 watt speakers) or else you can bridge two of the channels together and drive your subs.

Rod

How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs

Reply #24 – November 29, 2008, 08:48:52 PM

he said he wants to leave the deck speakers on the head unit,, dono why but thats what he wanted. I guess his head unit has a pre amp or sumthin,,

How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs

Reply #25 – December 11, 2008, 03:10:16 AM

If I'm not mistaken, from those diagrams you would be powering those subs with less than 50 watts each, which is less than the recommended RMS. I'd run the subs off of the other amp.

I uploaded a diagram on how I would setup the system. If I made a mistake on the diagram, please let me know.

Also, what type of box do you plan on installing the subs?

How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs

Reply #26 – December 11, 2008, 08:04:14 AM

first mistake, he has a 4 and a 6.5 on each side, not 4's on one and 6.5s on the other.

second to run a 4 and a 6.5 together, you want them in series, not in parallel. parallel drops the ohm rating down.

-539

How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs

Reply #27 – December 11, 2008, 10:10:17 AM

Quote from: LumpyCheeseman;247206

first mistake, he has a 4 and a 6.5 on each side, not 4's on one and 6.5s on the other.

My mistake. The way I did it, the front stage would be mono.

Quote from: LumpyCheeseman;247206

second to run a 4 and a 6.5 together, you want them in series, not in parallel. parallel drops the ohm rating down.

Why do you suppose the speakers should be wired series? Due to their physical sizes being different?

Both of the speakers are 4 ohm, so I see no reason why they shouldn't be wired in parallel to give the channel a 2 ohm load. The amp is 2 ohm stable, so I see no problem there. If you wired them in series, the channel would have an 8 ohm load and you would be wasting power.

How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs

Reply #28 – December 13, 2008, 01:02:38 AM

in series (positive on amp to positive on both speakers) the speakers should still only pull 4ohms, not drop to 8.

the other reason i wouldnt wire in parrallel (yeah i cant spell, i just woke up and am going back to sleep lol) is because of the wattage ratings on each speaker. the 3.5's will typically have a lower rating than the 6.5's, so even on a "lower wattage" amp, the parallel would bump to 2ohm and increase the wattage by a good bit. potentially to the point of blowing the speaker.

hopefully that clears up my standpoint lol.

-537

How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs

Reply #29 – December 13, 2008, 07:31:01 PM

Quote from: LumpyCheeseman;247392

in series (positive on amp to positive on both speakers) the speakers should still only pull 4ohms, not drop to 8.

If the speakers are wired in series, the final ohm load on the amp's channel will be 8 ohms. Wired in parallel, the final ohm load will be 2 ohms. There is no way that if they are wired to the same channel, they will pull a 4 ohm load.

Quote from: LumpyCheeseman;247392

the other reason i wouldnt wire in parrallel (yeah i cant spell, i just woke up and am going back to sleep lol) is because of the wattage ratings on each speaker. the 3.5's will typically have a lower rating than the 6.5's, so even on a "lower wattage" amp, the parallel would bump to 2ohm and increase the wattage by a good bit. potentially to the point of blowing the speaker.

hopefully that clears up my standpoint lol.

-537

I see what you are saying here. With a peak power rating of 140, I assume these speakers can take at least 40 watts rms. With the gains on the amp set reasonably, I would not imagine them blowing. My larger concern was with underpowering the speakers. The door speakers are set to handle 50 watts rms. Given the amp isn't a high end amp, what are the chances of it doing rated power? If it does perform rated power, that speaker is receiving 42.5 watts. Wire those speakers in series and the power received is somewhere less than 35 watts. I'd assume around 27 watts or so, but that is also assuming the amp puts out rated power.

To be completely honest, I would say junk or sell the 4" speakers and power the 6.5s and the 6x9s all with the 4 channel amp. The diagram I made above was just for it you wanted to keep all of the speakers. It was not what I would do in your situation. Removing the dash speakers was one of the best changes I made to my system. Not only would it make your system sound clearer, it would also free up power that could be used for the door speakers.