How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs

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How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs

November 04, 2008, 12:03:46 PM

Ok, here's what I have now.......In my TC I have the two dash speakers and two door speakers hooked up to my Power Acoustik amp along with two subs. The two rear deck speakers are currently hooked directly to the stereo and are acting like a fill in the back seat area. Most of the sound is currently coming out of the front four speakers.

Now what I want to do is change out the rear deck speakers (as they sound like they are blown) and add a 2 Channel 520 watt amp to power the subs. Using the 4 Channel 600 watt amp to power the six speakers. How would I do this? I am thinking all I have to do is add a distribution block to power both amps. Disconnect the subs from the 4 channel amp and plug them into the 2 channel amp and then plug the rear deck speakers into the 4 channel amp where the subs where plugged into. Also, run a wire from the remote connection on the 4 channel amp to the remote connection on the 2 channel amp.

Would this be correct?

How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs

Reply #1 – November 04, 2008, 01:26:08 PM

should work. what awg. is your power 12v power cable?

How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs

Reply #2 – November 04, 2008, 01:54:54 PM

Quote from: shame302;241613

should work. what awg. is your power 12v power cable?

4 AWG if I'm not mistaken.

How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs

Reply #3 – November 04, 2008, 02:18:35 PM

should be fine then.

How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs

Reply #4 – November 04, 2008, 05:43:39 PM

the power line is adequate, however, the way you want to wire the speakers themselves is a little off. if you wire 4 4ohm speakers on 2 4ohm outputs, it either raises the load to 2ohm, or the speakers dont receive adequate wattage. what i would do is continue to have the dash and door speakers run off the amp, and let the back speakers continue to run off of the headunit (after speaker replacement of course). the whole point of the rear is supposed to be fill. after all, when we go to a concert or watch a movie the rear speakers of a surround sound only really fill in what might be behind us, which usually isnt a lot.

if you are still using the stock headunit, just use the fader to go towards teh rear a little to bring the fill up to a comfortable level. if you are using an aftermarket, same thing.

i do hope that helps.

How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs

Reply #5 – November 04, 2008, 11:44:30 PM

Quote from: LumpyCheeseman;241649

the power line is adequate, however
Quote

Yes that should work but you should really find the total current draw that is running from that power wire and the length of the wire to find out if it is enough to handle the load. I don't remember the formula at this min.

Quote from: LumpyCheeseman;241649
the way you want to wire the speakers themselves is a little off. if you wire 4 4ohm speakers on 2 4ohm outputs, it either raises the load to 2ohm, or the speakers dont receive adequate wattage
Quote

Yes but no! It depends on if you wire those speakers in parallel or series. If you wire them in parallel positive to positive and negative to negative. When they are both 4ohm speakers Yes you will get a 2ohm load. But if you wire them in series where the positive from the amp goes to the first speaker and the neg from the 1st speaker runs a wire to the positive on the second speaker then then negative on the second speaker runs to the negative on the amp you get an 8ohm load with two 4ohm speakers. Then depending on the amp and what it can handle you could even run all four 4ohm subs in a 1ohm load all in parallel hook up and bridge the amp in to one channel and get the most out of your amp.

Quote from: LumpyCheeseman;241649
what i would do is continue to have the dash and door speakers run off the amp, and let the back speakers continue to run off of the headunit (after speaker replacement of course). the whole point of the rear is supposed to be fill. after all, when we go to a concert or watch a movie the rear speakers of a surround sound only really fill in what might be behind us, which usually isnt a lot.

if you are still using the stock headunit, just use the fader to go towards teh rear a little to bring the fill up to a comfortable level. if you are using an aftermarket, same thing.

i do hope that helps.

That sounds about right. The rear is more for fill but it all depends on what he wants his setup to sound like to him. Yes I love to hop in a car with Awesome imaging that can make you wonder why did that sound like it came from out on the hood or about 1mile back. You could even dial the gain on the amp down and fine tune with the fader.

How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs

Reply #6 – November 05, 2008, 01:30:00 AM

sure,, go ahead with it if your alternator is capable of dealing with the dirty current draws above the rated rms to the tune of about 100 additional amps.

On my stock 20th, with everything on and running, my clamp on shows 45amps. Its your call but 1120 additional watts @11vdc is purdy sketchy to me.

remember , as voltage goes down, current goes up but resistance remains the same. The resistance part is what we normally call our cars wiring harness and normally thats a constant pre-egineered awg size. Just keep that in mind when it comes to corroded/aged fuse links. Theres no reason why you cant get the same and cleaner DB out of a 500-600w unit if things are wired right. Run your one to all desired speakers by means of your rca headunit to amp. leave the rear deck as "fill" like suggested although i dont know why.

Next try wire all the speakers in parallel directly off the amp +/- to speaker +/-.

Next, rewire in series... +amp to pos speaker1, neg speaker 1 to +speaker 2, -speaker 2 to -amp.

gezz, there are so many options you have here as well. See ,you can also bridge the amp like for instance the two channel amp.
If you install a jumper wire from channel 1 neg to channel 2 pos, you now have a vacant channel 1+ and vacant channel 2 -. This will allow you to run
channel 1+ to sub1+
sub1+ to sub2-
sub2- to channel 2 -
0r,,,,,,,,in series which will yield the highest amount of current drop across both subs at once or....more noise and possible better db.

there are many options but a safe start is to wire parallel first and listen. Parallel will decrease the total resistive load the amp sees but the benefit is that the current drop across each sub is less. Its a misnomer to say putting speakers in parallel vs series effects the speakers resistance. Actually is the amp that """""SEE'S""""" the total resistance.

to say anything changes the resistance of something means little green men got in there and rewond the magnetic coil with a different guage wire or the turns ratio of wire inside the speaker cone itself. Its impossible to change the resistance without taking something apart and rewiring or reworking it.

In all reality,its actually the amp that sees the transaction taking place, the speakers just sit there and take the hit.

when you bridge the amp,, thats when we start pulling some current on the alternator as well,,ie- get the most out of your amp.

Another thing to engineer into this is the wire size mentioned. I highly suggest you supply your chassis ground from your amp to the metal of the car with as short as possible cable. this way you are only running one + cable back to a point where it will split off to each amp.

Your antited amperage should be based around a low voltage number of 11vdc.
so... 1120watts total / 11vdc=@100A

the wire size formula is
11.1 constant x loop footage (power cable distance of + and neg cable) x ampacity /allowable voltage drop of .25vdc=circular mil cable size
or
11.1x20x100/.25=88,800circular mils of copper required which equals 1/0 cable.

You can decide if your willing to allow for a larger voltage drop or not but if you do, it will decrease your wire size which might sound good.
You can also derate your ampacity to 80% which further decreases your wire size.

To get you into a 4awg, you must allow for .53vdc across your wire at the below 100% ampacity rating.
keep in mind at 11vdc, .53vdc represents 1/20th of your battery capacity not to mention the long term effects on the battery recharge time as well as alternator demand inwhich the amperage draw probably represents 50-80% of what its capable of producing with a 3g.

How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs

Reply #7 – November 05, 2008, 08:56:08 AM

Whew!!!!! After all that now I am really confused

My head is spinning. , now what? Ok, so what I'm hearing is, I really don't need to add another amp, leave the back speakers as fill and adjust the fader so I can hear the back speakers a bit better.

Now another thing I was thinking was to reset the way I have my speakers set up. Currently I have the Dash Speakers set as front speakers and the door speakers set as back speakers (that's the way the install shop set it up, not me) and the rear deck speakers are pluged into the head unit.

Now I'm thinking to set the Dash Speakers as fill(hook them to the Head Unit), Door Speakers as Front and of course Rear Deck Speakers as Rear. This should give me the desired sound I am looking for I think.

How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs

Reply #8 – November 05, 2008, 06:14:21 PM

what you wanna do, is run the front channel rca's to the amp. either split them, via rca splitters, or most amps have an out side for each in side. so either split or go in one in and loop the out to the next in. this way all 4 front speakers get the proper front channel. continue to leave the rear speakers as rear. that will get you proper imaging.

the subs should be the only things on your rear rca outputs. hope that clears it up

How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs

Reply #9 – November 05, 2008, 08:41:31 PM

lets do this... first define your power source.

after that, we can do you up some drawings of how to cable everything out.

step 1
what size alternator and battery do you have?
is your charge harness stock?

How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs

Reply #10 – November 05, 2008, 11:03:08 PM

Quote from: jcassity;241753

1. gezz, there are so many options you have here as well. See ,you can also bridge the amp like for instance the two channel amp.
If you install a jumper wire from channel 1 neg to channel 2 pos, you now have a vacant channel 1+ and vacant channel 2 -. This will allow you to run
channel 1+ to sub1+
sub1+ to sub2-
sub2- to channel 2 -

2.0r,,,,,,,,in series which will yield the highest amount of current drop across both subs at once or....more noise and possible better db.

3. there are many options but a safe start is to wire parallel first and listen. Parallel will decrease the total resistive load the amp sees but the benefit is that the current drop across each sub is less. Its a misnomer to say putting speakers in parallel vs series effects the speakers resistance. Actually is the amp that """""SEE'S""""" the total resistance.

4.to say anything changes the resistance of something means little green men got in there and rewond the magnetic coil with a different guage wire or the turns ratio of wire inside the speaker cone itself. Its impossible to change the resistance without taking something apart and rewiring or reworking it.

5.In all reality,its actually the amp that sees the transaction taking place, the speakers just sit there and take the hit.

6.when you bridge the amp,, thats when we start pulling some current on the alternator as well,,ie- get the most out of your amp.

What? Are you sure about all of that?

1. Yes this works for some amps I would only bridge it the way the manufacture tells you to. WATTS don't just add up either.

2. I'm thinking that you confused Series and parallel. In a series you increase the resistive load and in parallel you decrease the resistive load. Less resistance = more power = more volume. as the Ohm load on the amp decreases it increases in power and when you increase the ohm load on the amp the power decreases. example 8ohm=50 watts 4ohm=100watts 2ohm=200watts 1ohm=400watts.

3.First off if were at install stage why are we still playing with witch way to wire it. That part should be planed out already. The only sub wiring that might need a change would be the phase. And now days you can do that with the flip of a switch. I'm not so sure about your ideas on less current drop per sub in a parallel setup. Then amp running a low ohm load will net more power than the same amp running a high ohm load. And with a lower Ohm load you use more current. Why else would my Amp tell me to flip the to HIGH CURRENT mode with a ohm load of 2ohms or less. And yes the it is the amp that sees the load!

4.This I think you don't fully understand the way a speaker works. You want to change the resistance of a speaker move the cone. Don't believe me hook your meter to a speaker set the meter to ohm's and push the cone watch the meter move. The resistance changes depending what part and how much of the coil is inside the magnetic field that is created to make the cone move. Once you hook up your meter you will see that the speaker isn't the same exact ohms as printed on it. Close but some are lower and some are higher. As of changing the resistance without taking it apart I think you understand you can. So as the speaker moves the load changes constantly.

5. The amp gets signal in and takes that and increases the current/output of that signal and sends it to the speakers witch react and move back and forth turning those electrical signals into sounds waves.

6.Still that would have to depend on the amp and on the load into witch you configured your setup.

Then when it comes to power and ground wires get a big as you can can't go overboard. Find a good ground I like the rear seat belt bolt area wire brushed off to bare steel . Then bolt the ground down and cover in spray paint. Also Bigger power and ground will help keep the amp cooler it will have to work less to get the power it needs oh so much.

How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs

Reply #11 – November 06, 2008, 12:26:37 PM

Ok, after much debate and searching I've decided not to put the second amp in and just leave the rear deck speakers hooked to the head unit. My problem with the way it all sounds now is that the rear speakers sound like . I guess that's what happens when you install cheap Kenwood speakers that couldn't handle the wattage. I'm pretty sure the kenwoods are blown so I am going to replace them with Memphis Audio three way 350 wat speakers.

Installing another amp would not have changed the way the system sounds by much, expecially for the rear speakers, so why waste the money? Thanks for all the help everybody gave me.

How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs

Reply #12 – November 06, 2008, 02:22:13 PM

Just what kind of sounds are those rear deck speakers making? Back when I was 17 a friend had a set of Kenwood 6x9 in those behind the seat truck boxes for a truck in the back of his monza! With a Coustic amp they pounded.

How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs

Reply #13 – November 06, 2008, 04:00:27 PM

Quote from: ipsd;241966

Just what kind of sounds are those rear deck speakers making? Back when I was 17 a friend had a set of Kenwood 6x9 in those behind the seat truck boxes for a truck in the back of his monza! With a Coustic amp they pounded.

They sound like they are blown from time to time, the rest of the time they just don't put out what they should. Going to replace them with a set of Memphis Audio 6x8 three way speakers running a total of 350 watts.

How to hook up two amps, 6 speakers and two subs

Reply #14 – November 09, 2008, 03:49:20 AM

good to see your throttled back a little. your power source was not clairified but two amps may have brought on power issues.

ipsd
watts are always and foreever additive.

Car without audio amps
example=your electrical system in stock form with everything running,, a clamp on meter would show about 40amps.

40A demand x 12v battery = 480w (ahh, but keeping in mind as voltage drops,,,,,,,,,,current goes up until thermal runaway)

Car with audo amps
1120w of audio amps + 480w of normal vehicle demand =1600w

1600w / 12v = 133A required (3g required)

stock alt is approx 65A if your lucky..............12v x 65A = 780w capable

As for your saying the original wire size "sounds" right, not sure what data you have to support that but this is exactly how houses burn down, breakers trip , fuses blow and cars burn to the ground.

as time marches on, your nominial volage may drop (ie-sluggish starting symtoms or dim headlamp)
low nominial voltage example of 10vdc

@10vdc the car / audio still will demand 1600w
1600w / 10vdc = 160A required.

Watts can not be changed,, only your ablity to turn down the volume in the instance of an audio system. This will change the amperage demand which is the main issue im pointing out.

without a good alt, be careful of what amp your putting up against 20+ year old fuse links at the alternator output.