Toyota and the Media

Topic: Toyota and the Media (Read 6188 times) previous topic - next topic

Toyota and the Media

Reply #15 – July 04, 2008, 06:05:36 PM

Quote from: Thunder Chicken;225868

At least they bought them back... Ford would've said "tough shiznit, go buy another Ford", then been keelhauled to court and dragged through the media slime before settling on some class-action stupidity that essentially backed up their original position ("Tough shiznit, go buy another Ford... and oh, here's a coupon for $500 off").

Seriously. While I do agree that Toyota gets away with a lot, Ford seems to bring on a lot of its own problems by abandoning their customers as soon as they take delivery of the vehicle...

Lets not even bring up Chrysler's problems that they don't bother fixing then.

Toyota and the Media

Reply #16 – July 04, 2008, 11:31:27 PM

Oh, it isn't just Ford, not by a long shot. GM and Chrysler both have their share of embarrassments. Hell, so do Honda (oil burning engines, failing auto transmissions) and even Toyota (sludging engines, blowing head gaskets, etc), and just about all puppiesanese manufacturers (RUST). It's just that on the particular Toyota flaw that Claude brought up, Toyota actually did the right thing.

And that's probably a start to an explanation as to why Toyota slides under the radar when they DO fvck up. They actually believe in damage control - the cost of doing the right thing is less than the cost of the negative publicity for not doing the right thing (which is a double edged sword - not only does a company get bad publicity for not caring about its customers, but a given problem is publicised, tarnishing the company's quality reputation as well - potential customers read it as "The product sucks and the company doesn't care"). Given Ford's history of fighting and denying design flaw complaints (peeling paint, ignition switch fires, 3.8 head gaskets, 4.6 intake manifolds, etc) I'd say it's a safe bet that if it were Rangers with rotting frames, Ranger owners would be SOL without a court battle and media circus.

Toyota and the Media

Reply #17 – July 05, 2008, 07:00:03 PM

Thanks for buying Fords or at least American cars. My family appreciates it.

Toyota and the Media

Reply #18 – November 28, 2014, 10:21:19 AM

Please forgive me for resurrecting a six year old thread, but I haven't been on this forum long and I'm going back through a ton of posts. I enjoy reading them!

I had to comment on this. For years, my parents were Ford people... specifically, Mercury people. They had Mercury's in the 50s, and especially in the 60s. Their last Mercury before a decade and a half hiatus, was a '68 Marquis, which they traded in on a '72 Ford Galaxie 500 coupe. They kept the Galaxie for 24 years, in which it was used as a work car for the last 10 years of its life. They returned to Mercury when they bought an '83 Cougar new. (I think GS, even though it had a half vinyl top... I may be wrong on it being a GS though). They kept the Cougar until they traded it in for their last car, an '89 Grand Marquis GS, which we gave to a neighbor a few months ago after having it 24 years.

For a while, I stayed in the Ford family with a 2008 Ford Ranger XLT, which was my first vehicle. I still have that truck and it only has 33,000 miles. It's been an awesome truck. When the time came for a car, I took the bold move to go against the Mercury/Ford tradition in our family for three reasons (two of which I may be laughed at over)...

1) Ford killed Mercury. I know in reality Mercury was dead long before it was "officially" killed as Ford let it stagnate. I was mad because they didn't try to revive Mercury's heritage from their old days. I was mad because they chose to try to save Lincoln (which I'm laughing at now because their attempts are failing horrendously), when one could argue Lincoln's better days were behind them even more than Mercury's. I don't mean to offend anyone who has a Lincoln. I'm sure they're good cars, but I just believe Mercury should have been saved rather than Lincoln if there had to be a choice. I was extremely mad at Ford for killing the RWD Cougar in 1997. (I LOVED, LOVED, LOVED the 89-97 Cougars, none of which I was ever able to drive. That's on my bucket list! I'd give anything to drive one in good shape!) I absolutely loathed the last iteration of the Cougar. I know there's people that like them, but I don't. I'm still mad at Ford because they killed Mercury by letting it starve and stagnate.

2) Ford killed the Ranger. I know the Ranger was way long in the tooth in design, but that was part of its charm. Besides the Panther platform (Crown Vic, Grand Marq, Town Car), the Ranger was the last one that still had 90s design, plus it was a dependable truck. I'm not much of a F-150 fan. Just too big for my needs. I'm still mad at them for this too.

3) Ford's design. In late 2012, when I was looking for a car (I stupidly decided to buy new), Ford didn't have one good design that caught my eye... and yes, that even includes the Fusion. A lot of people seem to like the new Fusion, but it doesn't look good to me. I just don't get why people like it. Just my opinion. Nothing from Ford appealed to me.

The one saving grace that would've kept me in the Ford family is if there had been a new Mercury to be had. I would've bought a Grand Marquis (love the ride of the Grand Marquis!) or even more than that, a new RWD Cougar. So, Ford was crossed off the list.

I decided to squarely focus on the imports. I never have liked GM and save for their designs, Chrysler either. I test drove a 2013 Honda Accord, then a 2013 Nissan Altima, then a 2012 Toyota Camry (at this time, Toyota hadn't released a 2013 Camry, so that was the newest one they had). Simply put, the Camry was awful! It was floaty in the wrong ways. I remember thinking to myself, "Is this what the fuss is all about?" The Altima was nice, but it felt like something was missing. The Honda Accord won out as I was extremely impressed! Fast forward to two years later...

I'm going to be selling the Accord for a few reasons (in no particular order):

1) Taxes and insurance are way too expensive.

2) The Accord uses EPS (Electronic Power Steering), and it's pr0ne to failure outright at any given moment. There's even a fed investigation into the problem. I don't feel safe driving it anymore.

3) Honda under-reported problems with the Takata airbags. I griped at GM and Toyota for what they did, so I could do no different with Honda.

Mechanically, the car is sound, but there are the reasons for opting to sell it. I have since returned to the Ford family... specifically the Mercury family with a '86 Cougar GS... canyon red exterior and interior with almost 17,000 miles on the original 5.0 motor! I guess you could say the family came full circle.

I'm sorry for such a long post, but my point is... I had jumped on the "imports are superior to domestics" bandwagon, but I have since jumped off concluding that none of the car manufacturer's know how to make a decent car anymore, whether it's import or domestic. Anyone think I'm being too harsh?

Tommy

Toyota and the Media

Reply #19 – November 28, 2014, 01:39:47 PM

My mountaineer may be falling apart, front driveshaft shiznits itself every 50,000 miles, hubs, ball joints, squeaks, rattles, but at least I can work on it and not go broke.

A few years ago, I put a CV axle in a Camry...well, let me rephrase it. I tried to...could NOT get the original out, even with a big-assed slide hammer I rented. Put it back together and took it to the shop. The guy there had a hell of a time too.

That car still runs...my father in law has it. It's got more miles than my Mounty, and the Mounty has over 274K.

Where the right rear shock bolts to the subframe...is all rusted and gone years ago. Hitting a big bump in the Camry was...interesting. The exhaust smells (like overcooked rice, ironically. No, I am not making this shiznit up.)

Toyato may have had or still have slave labor...and all my stuff is second hand, but still, give me domestic...err, Ford, any day. I'd rather have a 25 year old car that I have been through, rather than the unknown quantity...will the frame rust? will the ign switch toast the rest of the ride? will the ed transmission go out before 50K?

My dad's '89 F150....paint all peeled and long gone on the hood and roof...I spun a rod the summer of '08 using it to haul straw...still could put another engine in it, clean the mouse turds off of the floorboards, and drive it another 300,000 miles.

That truck pulled a camper to Yellowstone twice in the early 90's. Never whimpered. Ford tough for life.

Toyota and the Media

Reply #20 – November 28, 2014, 01:47:38 PM

And how long do you expect your 28 year old ford to stay reliable? Even when it looks new other people still look down on you. I never realized how bad it was till i started driving my dads 2011 fiesta. Before this car, they newest car id ever driven was an 88 crown vic wagon.

I personally dont have a problem trying to keep my car going, and its something i do for fun. Other people see it as being stuck on the past and me not being able to move on. Personally, i just like the interior room. Im 6'5 and this car fits me like a glove. I actually hated my crown vic because.how much less room it had.

I've ridden/driven quite a few newer cars, including mustangs, trucks, suv's. They are all missing something. Most cars that do have enough room,the room is in weird places. Its nice to be able to slide my leg under the steering wheel, but if i have to move the seat back so far that my arms are fully extended, whats the point? Chevy pickups, tons of head room, but none for my knees.

The sad thing is, or cars are no longer made because there isn't a market for things. Somehow puppiesan got known for its gas mileage and quality.every person i talk to is floored that it gets more then 20mpgs and that it can live for over 200k, but for a price of garbage camry its expected. I know a lot of people with high mileage Toyota's. I don't know one person that hasn't replaced the engine before 100k.

Toyota and the Media

Reply #21 – November 28, 2014, 05:33:24 PM

Quote from: Haystack;441098

I've ridden/driven quite a few newer cars, including mustangs, trucks, suv's. They are all missing something.

I suspect the connection between the driver and the mechanics disappeared and a layer or more of IT pried itself between the two.

Toyota and the Media

Reply #22 – November 28, 2014, 05:41:09 PM

Quote from: Haystack;441098

I know a lot of people with high mileage Toyota's. I don't know one person that hasn't replaced the engine before 100k.

I know a lot of people with high mileage Toyotas. I don't know one person that has replaced the engine before 100k. Odd!

Toyota and the Media

Reply #23 – November 28, 2014, 08:01:04 PM

Quote from: Haystack;441098

do you expect your 28 year old ford to stay reliable? Even when it looks new other people still look down on you.

A car is as reliable as the guy who works on it, and the guy who drives it. As for what other people think of me and MY cars, until they start paying my bills, buying my food, and taking care of ME, what they think and say don't make one ed bit of difference to me.

I may not have heated ball scratchers, Sync, OnStar, navigation, leather seats, or power mirrrors (actually the Mounty does have leather and power mirrors), but it's mine, it runs, and I'm not afraid to take it the mudhole or the Gulf of Mexico.

Meanwhile, newer cars with far less miles and abuse have fallen by the wayside. Function before form, I'll take my heavy, ugly, stinky, rusty, dirty, bloody gas guzzler SUV over a shaging prius any day. In fact, Prius meanso "my wife carries my balls in her purse" when you do the translation from Yuppie Bullshiznit into standard American English.

Mine will be less ecologically damaging than the 'Yota pen 15...errrr, Prius... batteries when it finally is junkyard time, too.

Toyota and the Media

Reply #24 – November 28, 2014, 08:14:11 PM

I agree completely with everything said, minus the Toyota stuff. I had a buddy who's family only drove corollas. One was the geo metro version, but still a Toyota. Both ended up at the chevy dealer as. Trade in with blown engines while still under warranty. All oil changes and maintenance was done. They ended up with a focus that lasted well over 200k. When it got tired, they traded it in on a celica that blew the motor around 70k miles. Last i saw, it was still on jack stands in the driveway.

I've basically only driven 86-87 cougarbirds. Most were near 200k when i bought them cheap, and I've put at least 50k on each one with very little maintenance.

Toyota and the Media

Reply #25 – November 29, 2014, 01:59:19 AM

Quote from: oldraven;225716

I will never buy another Toyota product for as long as I live.

I never have, and doubt I ever will. I will stick with Ford and GM. Call me stupid if you like for the GM remark, but their pickups have done me very well for many years, like 20+

Toyota and the Media

Reply #26 – November 29, 2014, 07:47:39 AM

It is simple to understand. In a nutshell American car buyers are totally DUMB. They will buy certain cars like clock work and brag about how py American cars are. Even when Toyota has a huge SLUDGE issue unintended excelleration
issues and rotted frames. if that was an American car the media would plaster it all over the networks for years. case in point GM ignition switches. Which by the way most likely were made in puppiesan or china

Toyota and the Media

Reply #27 – November 29, 2014, 10:03:13 AM

short answer as to why this happens....

the people who are substance / fact based lost their voice out of fear of becoming a part of the latest "Name category". The media wants to see America fall or take a hit, they seriously enjoy seeing our country destroyed , the love and desire it so much that they will cherry pick anything that opens the door to chaos. Many people find this to be an impossible option but the terrible truth is that *its true*. As they exercise their freedom of speech, I am the guy buttstuffyzing what they just said and am taken back to the oath I took,, "I promise to defend the constitution from enemies both domestic and abroad".
In a nutshell, 9 out of 10 frees speechers fall into the category of the very people the tax payers told me to go fight.

I was food and survival prepping when it was considered weird.
I was recycling back when it was called "tight as bark on a log"
I was saying all the ugly truths back when it was called "uncompassionate"
I had a voice back when it was called "opinionated"

I said it back then and I will say it again, ~ it takes the rest of the world about 3 to 5 years to come around to my way of thinking.

now that our country has lived through all the things I said would happen, people are finding their voice again,, but I hold a grudge against them because if they had listened to history most importantly and others with a voice, they would not have been tricked into this situation "they caused". It pays very little to jump on any bandwagon just for the sake of being on the "popular team". It is an expensive and wreck less choice to not do your due diligence and fact gathering before making any choice.

Toyota and the Media

Reply #28 – November 29, 2014, 04:28:31 PM

As I said earlier in this thread (about 25 years ago or whenever it was first started), the really big issue is in how the manufacturer handles problems. I can speak of Honda in particular, because I work there. Until recently, Honda had basically four engine families: The smallest 4 (Fit, Insight, Civic Hybrid, CR-Z), the medium 4 (Civic), the "big block" 4 (CR-V, Accord, Civic SI), and the J-series V6 (Odyssey, Ridgeline, Pilot, Accord V6). Everybody considers Honda to be dead-nuts reliable, but I can say that three of those four engine families have what I would consider to be really bad flaws:

The Civic's 1.8 has an issue with the engine block cracking. This problem is common in Civics from 2006 to present day.

The Accord/CR-V 2.4 has an oil burning problem. This is common with all versions of this engine, from the mid 2000's to 2014. They burn so much oil that if owners don't keep an eye on the oil level (and most don't) they will empty the oil pan before the next oil change is due. Thankfully they start showing driveability issues before serious engine damage happens - VTEC uses oil pressure, and when the pressure drops it turns on the check engine light and the engine lacks top end power.

The J-series V6 also has an oil burning problem. This seems to only occur in versions with cylinder deactivation (basically all 2010-newer, with automatic transmission), and it is always in cylinders 1-4.

Like I said, they are all serious problems which would be very expensive to repair. If this were Ford, GM, or Chrysler the customer would be told "Tough shiznit, you're out of warranty". Honda, on the other hand, has increased the warranty on all of these problems. Civics have a 10 year, unlimited mileage warranty on the engine block. When it fails the customer gets a new short block - pistons, crank, oil pan and all. With the 2.4 issues the warranty has been extended to 7 years, 100k miles, but they will usually "goodwill" repairs much beyond those terms. If the car is burning excessive oil it gets new pistons & rings, plus a timing chain set and VCT actuator if the engine was throwing codes for a stretched chain. If the engine was actually damaged from low oil it gets a new engine (we haven't seen this yet). The V6 engines get new rings (but not new pistons) under their extended warranty of 7 years/100k miles. And Honda does not keep these extended warranties secret - they mail out letters to owners of affected vehicles, just like a recall letter.

I'm not trying to brag Honda up here for stepping up. They've also screwed up pretty royally as well (Takata airbags). But I would bet that if GM, Ford or Chrysler had any issues like this they'd say "Tough titty". I know this is true because it's exactly what Ford has said with the 3.8 head gasket problems, GM has said with the timing chain issues with its "high feature" engine family, and Chrysler has said with its py 4-speed automatic trannies.

Toyota and the Media

Reply #29 – November 29, 2014, 05:52:14 PM

puppiesanese manufacturers have the luxury of a seriously devalued yen vs. the dollar, therefore they can afford things like repairs and still bring Abe profits, just like he wants (and how he manipulated the yen).

If American manufacturers were making hand over fist like that, it wouldn't be much of an issue to do repairs in the exact same way.

puppiesan has always had the upper hand in America, and will continue to do so as long as there are governors willing to roll out the red carpet and give incentives and tax abatements to them. That didn't happen to American manufacturers in puppiesan or China, did it?