Skip to main content
Topic: European Fords (Read 5792 times) previous topic - next topic

European Fords

I love how people like to insist that Ford has no balls in the sense of pond skipping some of models,example the 99 Ford Cougar.

European Fords

Reply #1
i've never heard of people complaining of a lack of fords in europe, but it does make me angry that particular fords are available in australia but not here. they have a falcon. not fair!
It's always fun until someone loses an eye. then it's fun ya can't see.

-James Hetfield back when metallica was still making good music.

European Fords

Reply #2
forget the cougar,
escort cosworth is where its at!
RIP 1988 and 1990 Lincoln Mark VII LSC
I welcomed the dark side and currently am driving a 2000 Dodge Durango SLT plus, with a 5.9, Code named project "Night Runner"
Shes black on black, fully loaded, with headers, 180 tstat, e fan, straight exhaust into a cherry bomb vortex ler, full tune up, ported intake and T/B, MSD coil, and round aircleaner.
Mods to come: Fully rebuilt and heavily modded 46RE, and a richmond rachet locker.
my $300 beater ;)
R.I.P Kayleigh Raposa 12/18/90 - 2/24/07

European Fords

Reply #3
Quote from: 20th anny 5.o;190626
I love how people like to insist that Ford has no balls in the sense of pond skipping some of models,example the 99 Ford Cougar.

The problem with the Cougar wasn't that it was a bad car, it was that it was only a mediocre car that Ford provided absolutely zero love. No advertising, no upgrades, no improvements. As with almost every other vehicle Ford has made in the past several decades, the car was neglected to death.

Another problem with Ford bringing some Euro-spec cars here is that they are always, ALWAYS, dumbed down. We don't get the twin-turbo AWD Cosworth models. We don't get the inline sixes. We don't get the torquey and efficent diesels. We don't get the firm but fun suspensions. Hell, we can't even get a standard transmission in most models, and the few that do offer sticks usually only offer them on the base models/engines.

If Ford would bring a European car over and let it keep the attributes that make it successful in Europe we might actually see a fair gauge as to whether our market would accept them. Ford (and GM) inevitably tip the scales against them though, by "Americanizing" them too much.
2015 Mustang GT Premium - 5.0, 6-speed, Guard Green - too much awesome for one car

1988 5.0 Thunderbird :birdsmily: SOLD SEPT 11 2010: TC front clip/hood ♣ Body & paint completed Oct 2007 ♣ 3.55 TC rear end and front brakes ♣ TC interior ♣ CHE rear control arms (adjustable lowers) ♣ 2001 Bullitt springs ♣ Energy suspension poly busings ♣ Kenne Brown subframe connectors ♣ CWE engine mounts ♣ Thundercat sequential turn signals ♣ Explorer overhead console (temp/compass display) ♣ 2.25" off-road dual exhaust ♣ T-5 transmission swap completed Jan 2009 ♣

European Fords

Reply #4
They keep bringing the wrong Fords over. And when they do, they mess up what was good about them to start with. The Mondeo didn't translate well as the Contour/Mystique, and we get a nearly decade old  focus that the Euros had upgraded numerous times. If only they brought over the new Mondeo (no restyle) and Focus. Don't expect them to gamble twice on the same name so soon, though. And, yes, bring those Falcons over.

European Fords

Reply #5
Yeah, but they won't though...cause their heads are up their asses.
Personally, I'd love to have one of those Aussie Falcons, hell..even a Ute.
You could haul ass AND a load of wood, or car parts..or...

Yeah, Ford has RCIS.
(recto-cranio-inversion syndrome)

And if they don't realize what the cure is, they're gonna die from it.


I'm already buying flowers..:mad:
'98 Explorer 5.0
'20 Malibu (I know, Chevy, but, 35MPG. Let's go brandon, eh)

European Fords

Reply #6
Quote from: Thunder Chicken;190695
Hell, we can't even get a standard transmission in most models, and the few that do offer sticks usually only offer them on the base models/engines.


True, but you have to remember the interest most Americans harbor toward the manual transmission - zilch.
Ford could offer a joystick in most, if not all, of their models, but they would likely collect dust on the showroom floor.
People are lazy. They don't want to complicate their runs to soccer practice or Wal-Mart. Well, no more complicated than using a cell phone and fiddling with the satellite radio while driving.
I happen to think that this idea directly correlates with the growing obesity problem in this country. It's a long shot, but I think there's a connection.
Ford gave it a shot with the first run of the Lincoln LS. The V6 model could be had with a 5-speed manual, as you know. It was the first manual transmission offered in a Lincoln for half a century. That didn't last too long.
The only people who bid on those models on eBay are people like me. If I was in the market for a 4-door luxury vehicle, I would find a 5-speed Lincoln LS. Although, if I had the money, I would find a BMW 3 Series. Then again, that's domestic versus import.
Take a look at what Chrysler is doing. Can you get a manual tranny (not that auto-stick garbage) with the new Charger? Will they offer a manual with the new Challenger? I'd like to know, actually.

Companies like Ford clearly do a lot of research to see how they can position their vehicles to sell the most of them. If that means they will put a slushbox in most of the F-150s, so be it.
Aside from the Mustang, I think the last performance-oriented production vehicle from Ford to receive a true manual was the 1995 Thunderbird Supercoupe, and they made less than 500 with the stick-shift.

After all, that was the catalyst for my purchase of the '86 XR-7 - it had the T5 transmission.
I wanted to own a piece of clutch-driven performance-oriented Ford history from the '80s that wasn't a Mustang.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

European Fords

Reply #7
well  ford and their market research. i say the government should come up with some sort of law that they have to build so many manuals per year. like california laws say that a car company must make so many alternative fuel cars each year to sell any cars at all in the state. and if somebody other than the germans and some high-end hondas had those auto manual combo trannys, maybe they would get better.
It's always fun until someone loses an eye. then it's fun ya can't see.

-James Hetfield back when metallica was still making good music.

European Fords

Reply #8
I find it amazing that Ford hardly uses a manual transmission in ANY car. Their base model cars are typically geared toward a younger, generally more budget oriented crowd. Last I heard, the manual transmission was cheaper than the automatic. Cut costs, and you get a more broad crowd of buyers.

Now, to bring in a GM vs Ford point, Pontiac offers a manual in quite a few cars. For example, I was at work, and we had a loaded car hauler, and a brand new Pontiac G6 caught my eye. I climbed up to it, and it had a manual transmission! I looked over the window sticker, it had the high end V6 in it! That made me want a G6, nicely styled, comfortable, decently priced, good power AND a manual.
It's Gumby's fault.

European Fords

Reply #9
Quote from: cougarcragar;190724
True, but you have to remember the interest most Americans harbor toward the manual transmission - zilch.
Ford could offer a joystick in most, if not all, of their models, but they would likely collect dust on the showroom floor.
People are lazy. They don't want to complicate their runs to soccer practice or Wal-Mart. Well, no more complicated than using a cell phone and fiddling with the satellite radio while driving.
I happen to think that this idea directly correlates with the growing obesity problem in this country. It's a long shot, but I think there's a connection.
Ford gave it a shot with the first run of the Lincoln LS. The V6 model could be had with a 5-speed manual, as you know. It was the first manual transmission offered in a Lincoln for half a century. That didn't last too long.
The only people who bid on those models on eBay are people like me. If I was in the market for a 4-door luxury vehicle, I would find a 5-speed Lincoln LS. Although, if I had the money, I would find a BMW 3 Series. Then again, that's domestic versus import.
Take a look at what Chrysler is doing. Can you get a manual tranny (not that auto-stick garbage) with the new Charger? Will they offer a manual with the new Challenger? I'd like to know, actually.

Companies like Ford clearly do a lot of research to see how they can position their vehicles to sell the most of them. If that means they will put a slushbox in most of the F-150s, so be it.
Aside from the Mustang, I think the last performance-oriented production vehicle from Ford to receive a true manual was the 1995 Thunderbird Supercoupe, and they made less than 500 with the stick-shift.

After all, that was the catalyst for my purchase of the '86 XR-7 - it had the T5 transmission.
I wanted to own a piece of clutch-driven performance-oriented Ford history from the '80s that wasn't a Mustang.

...And yet Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan, and the Europeans still offer manual trannies in most of their models. Sure, less than 10% of Accords and Altimas are manual trannies, but that's a 5% boost to overall sales figures (just guessing that half of the manual buyers would have bought that model anyway if manuals were unavailable while the other half would have gone to a different manufacturer to get that manual). Coincidentally, import brands generally have better fuel economy numbers than domestics - I think the fact that they offer manuals and that manuals are more fuel efficient has at least some effect on that.

The problem with Ford (and GM) is that if they can't win in a particular segment they don't wanna play. If the vehicle isn't an instant, #1 smashing sales success they abandon it rather than improve it, and usually they stop making it altogether (witness the death of minivans from GM and Ford). Look at the Contour. Not a #1 seller, but it sold at least as well as (and probably much better  than) the first generation Altima. Rather than keep it around and improve on it, like Nissan did with the Altima, Ford gave up on the car entirely. Meanwhile, in Europe the car did get the improvements and is now a very respectable (and successful) vehicle.

The manual Lincoln LS was a failure, but then again the whole LS concept was, and the manual transmission offering was upside down - it should have been offered with the V8 model, not the V6. Actually, it should've been offered with both, but if they're only gonna give us one, make it the V8. The LS could have been a CTS competitor (which, BTW, offers manual transmissions in the V8 models) but as always, Ford neglected it to death.

Manual transmissions are not available from domestic manufacturers for one reason: Cost cutting. A manual transmission is cheaper than an automatic, but it costs more to offer that option. It's cheaper to build 'em all the same, especially when you can charge all of your buyers for that "feature" whether they like it or not.  People chose automatics because the domestic manufacturers make the choice for them.

As for Ford's market research: I think their current market share and financial situation prove how well that works...
2015 Mustang GT Premium - 5.0, 6-speed, Guard Green - too much awesome for one car

1988 5.0 Thunderbird :birdsmily: SOLD SEPT 11 2010: TC front clip/hood ♣ Body & paint completed Oct 2007 ♣ 3.55 TC rear end and front brakes ♣ TC interior ♣ CHE rear control arms (adjustable lowers) ♣ 2001 Bullitt springs ♣ Energy suspension poly busings ♣ Kenne Brown subframe connectors ♣ CWE engine mounts ♣ Thundercat sequential turn signals ♣ Explorer overhead console (temp/compass display) ♣ 2.25" off-road dual exhaust ♣ T-5 transmission swap completed Jan 2009 ♣

European Fords

Reply #10
Quote from: Thunder Chicken
...And yet Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan, and the Europeans still offer manual trannies in most of their models.


I wouldn't say they offer manual trannies in most of their models.
It seems to me that even the imports are arriving more often with an automatic as the only available transmission.

Ford is keeping up with Toyota, Honda, Hyundai and Nissan with their manual transmission options.
My local Ford dealership has a fully-loaded Milan, a FWD Escape and several Focii with the 5-speed transmission, not to mention the Mustangs and Rangers.
However, those cars are a very small portion of the dealership's overall stock. Most of each model have an automatic.
I've seen the same percentages at the import lots, too. Even the base model Corollas, Civics and Altimas seem to be 90% automatic.

For what it's worth, I spend nearly every day working with dealerships (television advertising) within a 70-mile radius, so I spend a lot of time farting around the lots and looking at the cars - new and pre-owned.

With that said, you mentioned Europeans in your post. I agree, but that's over there. The point I'm trying to make pertains only to this country.

Quote from: Thunder Chicken;190749
People chose automatics because the domestic manufacturers make the choice for them.


You're right, but I still stand by my point, so we'll have to meet in the middle.
The people in this country have been conditioned to use automatics.
Most Americans just don't care about a manual. The automatic is easier for them to use, so they have no desire to try the manual.
Most of my friends don't even know how to drive a stick. If they were looking to buy a car at a dealership that had to models sitting side-by-side; exactly the same except for the transmission, they would opt for the one with one less pedal.
All auto manufacturers - import or domestic - are at the mercy of this trend.
I can see the manual transmission slowly being phased out over the next 15 years.

:burnout: :flame:
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

European Fords

Reply #11
Quote from: Thunder Chicken;190749
...And yet Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan, and the Europeans still offer manual trannies in most of their models. Sure, less than 10% of Accords and Altimas are manual trannies, but that's a 5% boost to overall sales figures (just guessing that half of the manual buyers would have bought that model anyway if manuals were unavailable while the other half would have gone to a different manufacturer to get that manual). Coincidentally, import brands generally have better fuel economy numbers than domestics - I think the fact that they offer manuals and that manuals are more fuel efficient has at least some effect on that.

The problem with Ford (and GM) is that if they can't win in a particular segment they don't wanna play. If the vehicle isn't an instant, #1 smashing sales success they abandon it rather than improve it, and usually they stop making it altogether (witness the death of minivans from GM and Ford). Look at the Contour. Not a #1 seller, but it sold at least as well as (and probably much better  than) the first generation Altima. Rather than keep it around and improve on it, like Nissan did with the Altima, Ford gave up on the car entirely. Meanwhile, in Europe the car did get the improvements and is now a very respectable (and successful) vehicle.

The manual Lincoln LS was a failure, but then again the whole LS concept was, and the manual transmission offering was upside down - it should have been offered with the V8 model, not the V6. Actually, it should've been offered with both, but if they're only gonna give us one, make it the V8. The LS could have been a CTS competitor (which, BTW, offers manual transmissions in the V8 models) but as always, Ford neglected it to death.

Manual transmissions are not available from domestic manufacturers for one reason: Cost cutting. A manual transmission is cheaper than an automatic, but it costs more to offer that option. It's cheaper to build 'em all the same, especially when you can charge all of your buyers for that "feature" whether they like it or not.  People chose automatics because the domestic manufacturers make the choice for them.

As for Ford's market research: I think their current market share and financial situation prove how well that works...



Well said about the LS, my friends(rich friends) wanted a v8 stick shift car, loved the ls look, and knew the v6 had one, looked at the v8's only to find they were all auto, so he bought a bmw.
RIP 1988 and 1990 Lincoln Mark VII LSC
I welcomed the dark side and currently am driving a 2000 Dodge Durango SLT plus, with a 5.9, Code named project "Night Runner"
Shes black on black, fully loaded, with headers, 180 tstat, e fan, straight exhaust into a cherry bomb vortex ler, full tune up, ported intake and T/B, MSD coil, and round aircleaner.
Mods to come: Fully rebuilt and heavily modded 46RE, and a richmond rachet locker.
my $300 beater ;)
R.I.P Kayleigh Raposa 12/18/90 - 2/24/07

European Fords

Reply #12
All of the Nissan Cars come with a 5 or 6 speed.  You can get the 270hp v6 Altima or 255hp v6 Maxima with a 6 speed.
One 88

European Fords

Reply #13
its crazy, i blame the reason for less manuals is because people are flatout too lazy to drive one nowadays. I had a 92 cavalier a while back, and one of my buddies wanted to buy it cause it was cheap and ran great off of e85 he had cash in hand all 400$ of it, but he turned it down because it was a stick and he didnt know how to drive it nor had the intuition to learn.

lazy peoples, if i had my way my cougar would be a stick too but im not cutting a hole in the floor of that one. :D i like cruising in it.

European Fords

Reply #14
Quote from: Thunder Chicken;190749
Manual transmissions are not available from domestic manufacturers for one reason: Cost cutting. A manual transmission is cheaper than an automatic, but it costs more to offer that option. It's cheaper to build 'em all the same, especially when you can charge all of your buyers for that "feature" whether they like it or not.  People chose automatics because the domestic manufacturers make the choice for them.


Very true. Soon I will be in the market for a new daily driver and for practial reasons it will likely be a 4-door sedan. I really like the Fusion/Milan V6 models, but Ford doesn't offer them with a manual transmission, and this is something that I don't understand. In it's  twin, the Mazda 6, you can get the manual transmission with the same 3.0L duratech engine. So why not offer the Fusion/Milan the same way?
Ford's marketing strategy is doing well and the car is doing well, so instead of resting on it's laurels they could make the car even better by expanding it's market share further. Make the manual transmission available on the 6 cyl. and for the fuel efficient crowd, offer the 2.0L turbodiesel that the European Mazda 6 has.

Quote from: cougarcragar;190724
Can you get a manual tranny (not that auto-stick garbage) with the new Charger? Will they offer a manual with the new Challenger? I'd like to know, actually.


The Charger is not available with a traditional manual transmission, however the new Challenger will have a 6-speed Tremec available on the 5.7L (SRT model) & 6.1L (SRT8 model) cars.

http://www.allpar.com/cars/dodge/challenger.html

Brent
:cougarsmily:
1985 Mercury Cougar XR-7 - 5-speed 
One of 1,246 built