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Topic: time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS.. (Read 9939 times) previous topic - next topic

time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..

i bin looking to do this for a long time now about two years..
reason why is for a few reasons..

1. dolby digital 5.1
2. most of what i have is on DVD and are live concerts and allso recorded in 5.1 DOLBY or DTS
3. since they are live there are meny pro's and cons to having live concerts on DVD..
4. the 4 8's i'm useing would be great for studio recordings and or the typical stereo system. but since it's live and in 5.1 they can't handel the way live concerts are recorded.. lol if they are recorded right..
all the bass comes threw the subs.. ie bass drum and bass guitar and the low end of the electric guitar..

anyway.

i allready installed pro 6 1/2's in the doors and deck a while back..

and now it's time for the subs..
to replace the 4 8's i'm installing a set if madison executioners 12's
i usely hate large drivers but since they are pro 12's they won't flutter like most 12's. i hate muddy bass when it should'nt exist..not that it should'nt exist at all but only when it was recorded that way..

heres a link to madison amps check it out

http://madisonamps.com/2007/enter.htm

a direct link to raw drivers

http://madisonamps.com/2007/products/drivers/index.htm

i could only find a few picture none by me but this is what they look like



Nick
Quote
there's only about a half a dozen man made objects that are herd by the human ear below 40Hz,a pipe organ,thunder,the space shuttle lifting off,a jet airplane taking off or landing,a large canon,an atomic bomb ignited in your back yard and the heat wave afterward oh wait you would be dead so you would'nt hear it scratch that!,and maybe beating your hear against a wall less then 40 times a second..rap music is'nt one of them!thats 40-60Hz@100+db the moving air is under 40Hz

time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..

Reply #1 –
A "Pro Audio" (which by definition would be audio gear used in a studio or public address system) sub over a good car audio sub isn't going to make a big difference in "muddiness."  Because of the interior of a car (no parallel surfaces, no 90's, etc...) there is little to no chance of standing waves (dips or peak in low end frequencies) forming.  The only thing you'll do by using "pro audio" speakers in your car is create mismatched impedances...

Also, whether it's studio or live, all the low-end should come through the subs, assuming you know how to properly adjust your crossover...
1988 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe
'89 5.0 w/ ported intakes, Mallory Adjustable FPR, BBK shorties and H with 2.5" Flows, 130 amp 3G, 89 Mustang comp/wiring, Aluminum radiator w/ elec fan, T5 trans, King Cobra clutch, 3.55 gears, 13" Cobra brakes (front), Wilwood prop valve, Mustang A-arms, Front Coil-overs, MM CC plates, Silver 17x9 R's, 03 Cobra IRS, Aluminum DS, 2002 Mustang dash/console etc..., custom leather seats

speakers/subs are important but electronics are more important.

Reply #2 –
You can use the best speakers in the world, but if you amps are  or you don't use a DSP(signal processor) you can hang it up. There is no replacement. Additionally, home speakers may not hold up well in the extreme heat and cold environment of our cars. The materials are usually quite different. You need clean power and lots of it. So if you did not know, there is a lot more to this than good speakers. Look into a 3g or better alt upgrade, a capacitor, heavy gauge power wires and a good signal processor to start with. BTW most amps put out peak power in the 2-4 ohm range. I would suggest a 2 chanel for the subs and a 5 chanel for the inside speakers. A good center for the car is a lil hard to find for a decent price.  Good luck and let us know how things turn out. I've sold/installed car audio in the past and currently sell/instal home audio. Let me know it you got any questions.

time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..

Reply #3 –
Quote from: booksix;179870
  The only thing you'll do by using "pro audio" speakers in your car is create mismatched impedances...


why because you see that the speakers are 8 ohms? thats why i'm wiring them in parallel which is 4 ohms..






Quote from: blackcatdaddy;180293
You can use the best speakers in the world, but if you amps are  or you don't use a DSP(signal processor) you can hang it up. There is no replacement. Additionally, home speakers may not hold up well in the extreme heat and cold environment of our cars. The materials are usually quite different. You need clean power and lots of it. So if you did not know, there is a lot more to this than good speakers. Look into a 3g or better alt upgrade, a capacitor, heavy gauge power wires and a good signal processor to start with. BTW most amps put out peak power in the 2-4 ohm range. I would suggest a 2 chanel for the subs and a 5 chanel for the inside speakers. A good center for the car is a lil hard to find for a decent price.  Good luck and let us know how things turn out. I've sold/installed car audio in the past and currently sell/instal home audio. Let me know it you got any questions.


lol ok guys i guess you don't know much about me..

like you maybe i have bin doing this for meny years since i was a teenager... home/car audio and drivetrain build ups..
and i build my own speaker enclosures and have bin since i was a teenager allso..


and yes i have a DLP.. a panasonic CY-AC300 DOLBY/DTS 5.1 decoder is my head and a panasonic CX-DVP292 DVD player in the dash..

and yes i have a 3G alt.

and yes i ran a 4 gauge cable from the battery to the amps..

i'm useing a us acoustics 2150 in mono for my subs 450 watts RMS not peak.. it's 150X2 RMS in 4 ohms in stereo. bridged in 4 ohms it's 450 watts.

for my deck "L/R rears" and doors L/R front" i'm useing a us acoustics 4085 85X4 RMS in 4 ohms

for my dash "center" i have an old concord 50.2 for now 50X2

oh and and as for home or pro audio drivers not holding up to extreme heat and cold environment of our cars. the speakers i had in the doors and deck and dash i just took out where home use and they lasted allmost 4 years old and worked fine when i took them out.

and the ones before that where swaped out from my mustang in to the cougar that i had since 1994.. wrecked the mustang in the summer of 2000



Nick
Quote
there's only about a half a dozen man made objects that are herd by the human ear below 40Hz,a pipe organ,thunder,the space shuttle lifting off,a jet airplane taking off or landing,a large canon,an atomic bomb ignited in your back yard and the heat wave afterward oh wait you would be dead so you would'nt hear it scratch that!,and maybe beating your hear against a wall less then 40 times a second..rap music is'nt one of them!thats 40-60Hz@100+db the moving air is under 40Hz
 

time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..

Reply #4 –
Do you only have 1 US Acoustics 2150 amp? Or 2? If only one, you will be putting less than 50% RMS power to each sub. That's not a good way to avoid muddy bass.

time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..

Reply #5 –
yes at this time i'm only useing one 2150 in mono at this time.."450watts" i know i may have to up it to a 2200 sometime down the road or just another 2150 and use one for each driver.. or maybe an old school hifonics zues.. thats 900watts RMS @ 4ohms mono..



Nick
Quote
there's only about a half a dozen man made objects that are herd by the human ear below 40Hz,a pipe organ,thunder,the space shuttle lifting off,a jet airplane taking off or landing,a large canon,an atomic bomb ignited in your back yard and the heat wave afterward oh wait you would be dead so you would'nt hear it scratch that!,and maybe beating your hear against a wall less then 40 times a second..rap music is'nt one of them!thats 40-60Hz@100+db the moving air is under 40Hz

just a little update

Reply #6 –
things are still a little messy i work on it from time to time..

some pictures

the pictures of the speakers in the rear deck are the same in the doors.. 6 1/2" woofers,5 1/4 mid's, and 1" cloth dome tweeters.. yes i fit all those speakers in each door.. :D and all behind factory panels:evilgrin:

enjoy

Nick..
Quote
there's only about a half a dozen man made objects that are herd by the human ear below 40Hz,a pipe organ,thunder,the space shuttle lifting off,a jet airplane taking off or landing,a large canon,an atomic bomb ignited in your back yard and the heat wave afterward oh wait you would be dead so you would'nt hear it scratch that!,and maybe beating your hear against a wall less then 40 times a second..rap music is'nt one of them!thats 40-60Hz@100+db the moving air is under 40Hz

time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..

Reply #7 –
more
Quote
there's only about a half a dozen man made objects that are herd by the human ear below 40Hz,a pipe organ,thunder,the space shuttle lifting off,a jet airplane taking off or landing,a large canon,an atomic bomb ignited in your back yard and the heat wave afterward oh wait you would be dead so you would'nt hear it scratch that!,and maybe beating your hear against a wall less then 40 times a second..rap music is'nt one of them!thats 40-60Hz@100+db the moving air is under 40Hz

time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..

Reply #8 –
still more
Quote
there's only about a half a dozen man made objects that are herd by the human ear below 40Hz,a pipe organ,thunder,the space shuttle lifting off,a jet airplane taking off or landing,a large canon,an atomic bomb ignited in your back yard and the heat wave afterward oh wait you would be dead so you would'nt hear it scratch that!,and maybe beating your hear against a wall less then 40 times a second..rap music is'nt one of them!thats 40-60Hz@100+db the moving air is under 40Hz

time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..

Reply #9 –
Nice setup although it may have its faults (why a 5 1/4" alongside a 6 1/2? Why not, say, 6 1/2 or 7 along a 3" and a tweeter?). Have any specs on the subs? Most people think negatively about 8ohm speakers in car audio but more times than not, they are more efficient than the similar 4ohm speaker (3db more efficient often enough). Half the current draw, yet the same output per one gain setting on the amp! I'm interested in seeing the doors and how you handled that. I best I can see up front behind factory panels is a midbass/midrange in the doors and a tweeter in the black exterior mirror covers. Anything other than this and you have problems with the drivers pointed at the door panel itself rather than out the grill (without custom fabrication).

I just got two Alpine PDX 4.150's for $200 and $140 (great deal - I had to impulse buy)so they'll be replacing my 2.150 and Eclipse XA1000. Subs should receive 450w each and my front stage will get 150w at 8ohms. Best of all, nothing interferes with ANY space in the trunk or elsewhere. I will probably have to remove those cross braces now due to the excursion of these subs (1.5" one way xmax - basically made for infinite baffle) at the higher power levels. I'll be keeping a lookout for the 1.1000 for a good deal so that they can get the 600w each they want but for now, the current setup will do with the subs wired up in stereo. Small amps fit in small places ;)

Even with these amps though, I still have the big wires using Kicker 0awg Hyperflex until necessary to break down to 4awg (like at the amps). No voltage drop even at idle with the efficiency of Class D.
1988 Thunderbird Sport

time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..

Reply #10 –
this is the specs for the 12's
http://www.shredmuzic.com/product_p/813-004.htm

and is why i need a bigger amp:D

and the reason for the mids i had 4" mids but they where to tinny and the 5 1/4's are much smoother and cleaner.. and the tweeters well.. like i said i'm running true 5.1 right out of the DVD to the decoder.. so their are 5 yes i said 5 tweeters and only play 6000hz and up..

if i was running a regular stereo setup i would have only use two of them..

the 6 1/2 are for a fill in on each ch. in dolby and dts  each ch is a full band of fq ie about 20-20000hz

with the subs as a LFE

the mids run from about 400-8000hz and the 6's run from 80-5000hz
and most live recordings they mix those ch to fill any lower in fq would be to muddy and noisy.unless i put 10's or 12's in the door and deck:D  i don't need mud in the doors and deck i have enough of it coming out of the 12's behind the seat..

you asked how did i get all those speakers in my door well:D

the 6's are in the factory spot and the mids and tweeters are behind the carpet right on top of the 6's...yes i cut metal behind the door panel and the metal behind the carpet and pulled the foam off the carpet.. and cut the plastic panel..looking at the doors and rear deck  it looks factory and look like it was never touched..

this is what used in the doors and deck for  mids and tweeters.. you will say WTF! but it works.. oh and the 6's

http://www.partshagpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=269-326



http://www.partshagpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=295-015




Nick
Quote
there's only about a half a dozen man made objects that are herd by the human ear below 40Hz,a pipe organ,thunder,the space shuttle lifting off,a jet airplane taking off or landing,a large canon,an atomic bomb ignited in your back yard and the heat wave afterward oh wait you would be dead so you would'nt hear it scratch that!,and maybe beating your hear against a wall less then 40 times a second..rap music is'nt one of them!thats 40-60Hz@100+db the moving air is under 40Hz

time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..

Reply #11 –
Were the speakers in the 5x7 setup removable?
It's Gumby's fault.

time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..

Reply #12 –
Thats way too much overlap on the midrange and midbass if it isn't setup on a single crossover (either active or passive) range. Talk about a cancellation and imaging nightmare. To each their own I guess. I'm sure it sounds decent with movies though as long as the fade is setup to a point where the "sweet spot" is one of the seating positions. You wouldn't have to worry as much about time alignment issues if its movies but I can't imagine music detail being all that great compared to a decent front stage installation.

I need to make some speaker pods one of these days to fix my own issues. I'm thinking of trying some Seas W18NX drivers and compare to the Aurum Cantus I use now - great midbass drivers but I hear the Seas have much better midrange detail than basically anything out there. I don't think the paper cones are treated though to kickpanel pods are a must. Efficiency is down a few db at 1 watt too. Either way, at $400 for the pair, they sure had better sound good (I'm trying to find a used pair around $250).
1988 Thunderbird Sport

time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..

Reply #13 –
For audio i know a few good things that work for these cars not trying to hijack this thread. But i gotta put all my old stuff out of my 87 T-bird into my 88 Cougar XR7 so i might change a few things next time around.

1. Buy good speakers but AMPs are where most of the money should go.

2. Use some kind of stuff to keep the sound inside of the cars

3. A good working EQ makes everything better

4. 3G alt super nice to have and its good you have it

5. these pics show 2 good ways to get to sound out of the trunk and into the car better.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


http://www.cardomain.com/id/Carpimp1987
1987 T-Bird AEROBIRD-GT had many many mods but is now totaled and is the car that made me want to start customizing everything all over again.
1988 T-Bird 5.0 HO DD/Sleeper/next project car :birdsmily:
1988 Cougar XR7 5.0 HO Vortech Supercharged being bulit right now :cougarsmily:

time for the pro audio overhual NEW PICS..

Reply #14 –
the best way to get low bass out of the trunk and into the interior is block the cancellation between the sound waves reflecting around the trunk. there are to ways you can do this play with box position and rotation until you find the sweet spot[bass is the loudest]. or you can seal the front of the speaker to the interior. that keeps all the reflecting sound from canceling the sounds you want. if you do it this way you are making the interior the only place that the sound waves are firring into. that would be like building a box to put the speaker into then building another box that the speaker is firring into. the simplest way to put it is it would be like sitting inside the speaker box. that is how they do it in the pro sound competitions. i personally run sub's only in the rear and a good set of mids and tweets in the doors aimed for best imaging.  i know the last time i had my amp installed and working with the 2x10's and 2x12's running a free air setup that is sealed to the interior with about 800 watts in a 1ohm setup i could pound my self and the car to death if i wanted to. i'm not a basshead the mids and tweets will keep up and rip your head off all by themselves.

84 Turbo coupe 2.3T Modded with 88 upper and lower intake, 88 injectors, E6 manifold, T3-4 AR.60 turbo, 31X12X3 FMIC, Homemade MBC , Greddy knock off BPV.
4 eyes see better than 2! 
Da Bird!

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