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Topic: MN12 cars... (Read 11656 times) previous topic - next topic

MN12 cars...

We've had quite a few threads recently about MN12 Birds/Cats and I keep saying they are worthless in my area. Here's some examples:

94 Bird, 4.6, 151K, $850
http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/car/330333339.html

94 Bird, 4.6, 168K, $1695
http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/car/329778014.html

95 Bird, 4.6, $1000
http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/car/329615642.html

94 Bird, 4.6, leather, loaded, 94K, $2500
http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/car/329573387.html

94 Bird, 4.6, 162K, $1300
http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/car/329299478.html

94 Bird, 3.8, 78K, $1695
http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/car/327209162.html

97 Bird, 4.6, Pearl Paint, 58K, $3200
http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/car/327018905.html

These are NICE cars with no problems or damage, yet they're going for peanuts. I wonder if it's like this everywhere or if it's a local epidemic?

MN12 cars...

Reply #1 –
I've never been a fan of the MN-12's. Occasionally I'll see an early Cougar that I don't think is too bad....but then I remember that it's an MN-12.
Long live the 4-eyes!  - '83 Tbird Turbo - '85 Marquis LTS - '86 LTD Wagon

MN12 cars...

Reply #2 –
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=217469322&dealer_id=570110&car_year=1995&model=TBIRD&num_records=100&make2=&start_year=1989&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&search_type=both&distance=50&make=FORD&color=&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceASC&address=61603&advanced=y&end_year=1997&doors=&transmission=&max_price=&cardist=9

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=213760196&dealer_id=56480680&car_year=1996&model=TBIRD&num_records=100&make2=&start_year=1989&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&search_type=both&distance=50&make=FORD&color=&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceASC&address=61603&advanced=y&end_year=1997&doors=&transmission=&max_price=&cardist=49

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=218537559&dealer_id=832050&car_year=1997&model=TBIRD&num_records=100&make2=&start_year=1989&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&search_type=both&distance=50&make=FORD&color=&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceASC&address=61603&advanced=y&end_year=1997&doors=&transmission=&max_price=&cardist=9
I'm half tempted to buy the 3rd one so I have a matching set.

Things to look for on the 96-97 are:
16in rims
Traction Control
Sun Roof
Full gauge dash
System Sentry
4 Wheel Disc brakes

And one that is not Red, Green, Or Pastel Blue.

MN12 cars...

Reply #3 –
It's like that here as well - a '94 or '95 would be lucky to pull in $1500 IF it had the 4.6. A 3.8 model would be almost worthless. YOu MIGHT get $2500 for a '97 model. Of course, given the MN12 rust problem and the fact that the newest one is now 10 years old, there wouldn't be many left in Nova Scotia worth buying...

One thing to remember: Most MN12's are just now at the point that Fox cars were a few years ago - still plenty of 'em to be found, and not quite old enough to be desirable. They also had a model run of 9 years to choose from, where the aero Fox only had 6 (and with two distinctly different looks each, for T-Bird and Cougar). As more and more of 'em fade away their prices will gradually start coming up
2015 Mustang GT Premium - 5.0, 6-speed, Guard Green - too much awesome for one car

1988 5.0 Thunderbird :birdsmily: SOLD SEPT 11 2010: TC front clip/hood ♣ Body & paint completed Oct 2007 ♣ 3.55 TC rear end and front brakes ♣ TC interior ♣ CHE rear control arms (adjustable lowers) ♣ 2001 Bullitt springs ♣ Energy suspension poly busings ♣ Kenne Brown subframe connectors ♣ CWE engine mounts ♣ Thundercat sequential turn signals ♣ Explorer overhead console (temp/compass display) ♣ 2.25" off-road dual exhaust ♣ T-5 transmission swap completed Jan 2009 ♣

MN12 cars...

Reply #4 –
My buddy was selling his 94 Bird, took him about a year.  Started at $1800 and finally moved a $600.  It was in good shape, except for it being in primer.
1988 Thunderbird Sport (1st car)
351W in the works
"I'll get it one piece at a time...":D

Quote from: bhazard;300566
You got woman'd.

MN12 cars...

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Thunder Chicken;147102
They also had a model run of 9 years to choose from, where the aero Fox only had 6 (and with two distinctly different looks each, for T-Bird and Cougar). As more and more of 'em fade away their prices will gradually start coming up


There were 3 different body style changes from 89-97. But the most drastic change was 96 where they had to change the hood to clear the newer 4.6 hence the big bulge in the middle of the hood. It also got wider side molding. Plus you have to remember that 95 was the last year for the super coupe.

96-97


94-95


89-93

MN12 cars...

Reply #6 –
All i know is there kinda cheap and i would not mind having a supercoupe painted Yellow and black with the new FORD GT rims and somewhere around 400-500RWHP.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


http://www.cardomain.com/id/Carpimp1987
1987 T-Bird AEROBIRD-GT had many many mods but is now totaled and is the car that made me want to start customizing everything all over again.
1988 T-Bird 5.0 HO DD/Sleeper/next project car :birdsmily:
1988 Cougar XR7 5.0 HO Vortech Supercharged being bulit right now :cougarsmily:

MN12 cars...

Reply #7 –
Quote from: slamedcat;147101


Things to look for on the 96-97 are:
16in rims
Traction Control
Sun Roof
Full gauge dash
System Sentry
4 Wheel Disc brakes

And one that is not Red, Green, Or Pastel Blue.


You will be looking for a long time to find a '97 with "full gauge dash" as they didn't exist. 1997 had a few cutbacks, the instrument cluster being one of them.

However, the oil pressure gauge on the "full gauge dash" was not really a gauge. It used an oil pressure warning light switch rather than a true sending unit, so the gauge didn't exactly measure actual oil pressure.

I never really heard anyone wanting the System Sentry, either :)

MN12 cars...

Reply #8 –
My 96 has the Systen Sentry. Its nice since it tells me that coolant, fuel, and I think oil are low. But it doens't have the Traction Control. The only reason I like the idiot lights is because it takes the guess work out of why the check gauges light is on.

Yes when the fuel level gets down to the last gallon the check gauges light comes on. As for the full instrument cluster I heard about that but never really looked close enough at the 97 since I could never seem to find one.

Mine I can auctually see the needle on the oil pressure guage move when I start the car. It slowly builds pressure.

MN12 cars...

Reply #9 –
Quote from: slamedcat;147104
There were 3 different body style changes from 89-97.
89-93


Actually I think there were 4 different ones, that is a '91-'93, 89-90 had a different front bumper and rear bumper too.

This is my buddies old '89 3.8L Bird

MN12 cars...

Reply #10 –
Quote from: slamedcat;147121
My 96 has the Systen Sentry. Its nice since it tells me that coolant, fuel, and I think oil are low. But it doens't have the Traction Control. The only reason I like the idiot lights is because it takes the guess work out of why the check gauges light is on.

Yes when the fuel level gets down to the last gallon the check gauges light comes on. As for the full instrument cluster I heard about that but never really looked close enough at the 97 since I could never seem to find one.

Mine I can auctually see the needle on the oil pressure guage move when I start the car. It slowly builds pressure.

It's fairly commonly known that the oil pressure gauge is in fact an idiot warning light.

Look at the "sending unit". You will see that it's not a true sending unit, but rather a warning lamp switch. I think ~5-7psi or so and the gauge swings up to the normal. It does not measure or report actual oil pressure other than if there is any or not.

As far as the speed of your oil pressure "gauge" upon engine startup, look at the speed that the gauge moves when you turn the key to on, but the engine is off. You'll see the gauge itself is not exactly fast to move to L.

The system can be modified to actually report as a normal oil pressure gauge would, somewhat. But in stock form, it's actually a fancy oil pressure warning light.

Engine RPM and engine temperature would also make a true oil gauge move throughout the band.

As far as electric traction control, that is controlled via the ABS system, but you could have ABS and not the electric traction control. You could have electric traction control, "traction-lok" rear axle, or none.

The optional systems sentry, was included on the 1997's instrument cluster, standard. Door ajar, low washer fluid, low coolant idiot lamps all had symbols in the 1997's instrument cluster. However, the 1997's instrument cluster lacks an oil pressure gauge and volt gauge. The traction control disable button, if equipped, was moved to center console (under lid) on the 1997s.

I've got an '94 and '97 (both 4.6Ls).

MN12 cars...

Reply #11 –
Quote from: slamedcat;147104
There were 3 different body style changes from 89-97. But the most drastic change was 96 where they had to change the hood to clear the newer 4.6 hence the big bulge in the middle of the hood. It also got wider side molding. Plus you have to remember that 95 was the last year for the super coupe.

96-97


94-95


89-93

I'm aware that the bumper cover and hood changed (and in 95-97, even the headlights) - I installed a '93 T-Bird bumper cover onto my '91 when I was starting to do the body on it because I had to do it anyway (the original one had a big hole in it) and I liked the style of the '93-4 bumper better.

Aside from those minor bolt-on changes, though, and some changed to body mouldings and claddings, the actual steel body of the MN12 Bird was unchanged through its entire model run. The Fox body was completely changed in '87 - every single inch of sheet metal and glass was different, except the hood (and in the case of Turbo Coupes the hood was changed too :hick:). There's no denying that 83-86 and 87-88 are two distinctly different body styles, as very few body parts will interchange - only the hood, as mentioned above.

Anybody could bolt a '97 bumper cover and grille onto an '89 though...

The fact that an '89 is so similar to a '97 is what makes an '89 seem so much newer than an '88. When people see a fox car they see an 80's car. When they see an MN12 they see a 90's car. 90's cars are still too new to attract the eye of collectors or to stir up nostalgia among the general public. That is why they're so cheap right now - much the same as a half decade ago people were giving their Foxes away. Some people still are selling foxes cheap, actually - foxes are still in that grey area between modern beater or classic collectible. They are only just starting to tilt toward classic.

The same thing happened when I bought my first car. Back in 1990, a '78 Trans Am was too new to be considered collectible, so I bought one for $600. Try and find one for that much now - bring a flatbed if you do. Heck, back then people were taking the glass out, welding in cages, and going hillbilly racing (and beating the supreme shiznit out of them) on dirt tracks against Mach 1's, Monte Carlos, Novas, Baracudas, Chevelles, etc. Just like they did with our cars through the late 90's...
2015 Mustang GT Premium - 5.0, 6-speed, Guard Green - too much awesome for one car

1988 5.0 Thunderbird :birdsmily: SOLD SEPT 11 2010: TC front clip/hood ♣ Body & paint completed Oct 2007 ♣ 3.55 TC rear end and front brakes ♣ TC interior ♣ CHE rear control arms (adjustable lowers) ♣ 2001 Bullitt springs ♣ Energy suspension poly busings ♣ Kenne Brown subframe connectors ♣ CWE engine mounts ♣ Thundercat sequential turn signals ♣ Explorer overhead console (temp/compass display) ♣ 2.25" off-road dual exhaust ♣ T-5 transmission swap completed Jan 2009 ♣

MN12 cars...

Reply #12 –
Do enough waxing and keep up on body care and that rust problem should vanish. Not enough people take good care of thier vehicles. I would not mind an Mn12 but i have my new edge cougar so i dont really need another cougar.

Quote
We've had quite a few threads recently about MN12 Birds/Cats and I keep saying they are worthless in my area. Here's some examples

This statement is totally open to opinion considering there is probably on an Mn12 board somewhere a thread about our foxes with the exact same opinion and  gist to it.

MN12 cars...

Reply #13 –
Worthless in my area is a fact, not an opinion. The market is flooded, nobody wants them, and so when they do sell it's for so cheap it's ridiculous. I have no idea what the rest of the country is like, but in the Pacific Northwest, MN12's are only worth s metal.

Foxes on the other hand are going nuts. V6 Birds/Cats that 2-5 years ago were $200 beaters are now $800. The $500 TC "driver" is now a $2000 TC. The "nice" cars that did bring in $2500 and up are now SELLING in the $6000-$7000 range regularly. Low mileage cars are hitting $10,000 without batting an eye. Sure you can still find $100 clapped out rusted to all get out bashed in clunkers, but you can find ANY year Tbird as a clunker for cheap.

MN12 cars...

Reply #14 –
In this area you would be lucky to buy a v8 96 97 for less than 4000k.
One 88