No Run Problem Reply #30 – August 01, 2009, 09:25:05 PM watchdevil,You say you have spark.For normal operation the TFI will fire the coil when it gets a SPOUT (spark out) pulse from the EEC. The EEC won't send a spout pulse if it doesn't get a PIP pulse from the TFI.The yellow wire in the TFI harness goes through a one wire connector. This is the SPOUT wire. If this connector is unplugged the TFI recognizes this and fires the coil without a spout pulse from the EEC. This is used to set the 'base timing"So it is possible to have spark without the EEC seeing any PIP pulses. However the TFI has to see the PIP pulses from the emitter in the distributor. Quote Selected
No Run Problem Reply #31 – August 01, 2009, 11:59:45 PM Quote from: softtouch;284861watchdevil,You say you have spark.For normal operation the TFI will fire the coil when it gets a SPOUT (spark out) pulse from the EEC. The EEC won't send a spout pulse if it doesn't get a PIP pulse from the TFI.The yellow wire in the TFI harness goes through a one wire connector. This is the SPOUT wire. If this connector is unplugged the TFI recognizes this and fires the coil without a spout pulse from the EEC. This is used to set the 'base timing"So it is possible to have spark without the EEC seeing any PIP pulses. However the TFI has to see the PIP pulses from the emitter in the distributor.Thank you so much for all your help! I am usually pretty good with mechanical things but I don't have much experience diagnosing complex issues as these. I have a day off tomorrow and I hope I can accomplish something. I am very concerned about the insulation of the wires getting brittle and coming off. I did notice the yellow wire for the PIP going to the ignition module. It has it's own round connector that seperates it right near the distributor. I am very concerned that while I was working on the car to change the cap, rotor and wires and replacing the airfilter and cleaning the air filter housing that I may have disturbed the ignition module wiring in it's delicate condition. This problem I am having did not start until I undertook changing the plugs, cap, rotor, wires, airfilter and oil. Before all this the engine ran fine, just not well with old parts that needed to be replaced. Like I said after i changed all the parts, it started fine, ran for about five minutes and completely stalled. Quote Selected
No Run Problem Reply #32 – August 02, 2009, 06:09:46 PM Well I had a chance to work on the Bird some more today.I replaced the fuel filter. Then I checked voltage to the injectors. 12V+ at the red wires and .05 at the brown wires. I put a little fuel in the TBI. It started right up. I was able to gun the accelerator with no stumbling. I observed fuel flowing against the throttle plate and all looked good. The engine ran for five minutes and stalled again. Is there something causing the engine to possibly stall after it gets hot? I cannot get it started again. It seems the fuel injectors just quit spraying to keep fuel in the TBI. Quote Selected
No Run Problem Reply #33 – August 02, 2009, 07:35:24 PM when it was running,the injectors were spraying?and i get the same voltage on mine. Quote Selected
No Run Problem Reply #34 – August 03, 2009, 12:40:52 AM Quote from: 1983bamabird;284979when it was running,the injectors were spraying?and i get the same voltage on mine.Oh yeah the injectors were spraying for sure... I could see waves of fuel moving on the throttle plate...This is fustrating with it not running again. it just keeps acting like it runs out of fuel. Fuel pressure must be the problem at this point. The car does have two pumps. They are expensive. Quote Selected
No Run Problem Reply #35 – August 03, 2009, 01:55:28 AM This sounds all to familiar although mine is on a turbo coupe. I've got my engine compartment wiring in spaghetti mode. Looking to fix this same problem. Starts and runs then little bit after norm temp. Dies dead as a door nail. Mine seems to be a no spark issue. I only get one tach jump when I got to start it. Found many wires of questionable nature everywhere in the whole setup. Here is a pic of where I'm at on itOn mine the pumps are running and making pressure. Everything seems to check out and I've tired 3 different TFI's and all do the same thing. I've warrantied and got a New dizzy with new PIP still does it. Fixed many wiring problems still did it. So you see where I'm at still fixing and making it work some how. I did find some at turbo ford saying it is the E.C.T. (temp sensor for the computer) In my wiring job I did find one of those two wires broken. I'm so far in the wiring I haven't got it fixed and put back to find out if that is it. Tomorrow hopefully. Get a spark tester and see if you have spark when it does this? Mine does cold but once warmed up none. Stuckman Quote Selected
No Run Problem Reply #36 – August 03, 2009, 10:14:08 AM Last night I was doing more research and discovered how the ECT works by allowing the engine to deliver more fuel when the engine is cold. When it warms up it stalls, so maybe this is the culprit. Quote Selected
No Run Problem Reply #37 – August 03, 2009, 10:40:47 AM IPSD what you describe sounds like the classic ford TFI failure. It might be worth your time to try swapping in a different TFI module from the parts store. Worst case, you take the TFI back to the store for a refund.I have a hard time believing you have a wiring issue that is that consistent with temperature. If it was a failing splice due to temp or something similar then the patient should quickly deteriorate into a complete no-run.-dz Quote Selected
No Run Problem Reply #38 – August 03, 2009, 11:05:10 AM Quote from: danzajax;285074IPSD what you describe sounds like the classic ford TFI failure. It might be worth your time to try swapping in a different TFI module from the parts store. Worst case, you take the TFI back to the store for a refund.-dzI've already swapped the TFI three times. Along with many other parts. If you want to see the full list look here http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?t=21034&page=2 I work at my local parts store. So warranty is not an issue. I'm not saying it is in the wiring but never hurts to get that part all lined out. Finding all sorts of things in the wiring that needed a tending to. Hoping when I get it back together today that my broken ECT wire was it. Maybe even a new ECT sensor. Hoping that gets me back in running shape. Stuckman Quote Selected
No Run Problem Reply #39 – August 03, 2009, 11:16:04 AM Hmm...suck. I had a sorta similar situation on my 95 explorer. Turned out there was garbage in the little sample tube for the Mass Air sensor. Quote Selected
No Run Problem Reply #40 – August 03, 2009, 03:23:50 PM Does anyone pull codes anymore? Quote Selected
No Run Problem Reply #41 – August 03, 2009, 08:57:37 PM Maybe its a O2 issue. When it goes from open loop (Fuel map) to closed loop (o2 feedback) a faulty o2 tells the ECU to lean it way out. Not sure how to verify this. Just what we call in the industry a WAG.Purchase and return? Quote Selected
No Run Problem Reply #42 – August 04, 2009, 10:50:20 PM I tried to work on the no-run problem again today. Dumped some fuel in and it ran for a minute then stalled. I think the culprit is really fuel pressure. I emptied the fuel from the TBI valve and not much fuel came out. Afterwards, I tried priming it again and still not much came out.Looks like I will be looking at both the external and internal fuel pumps. I am also wondering if the fuel pressure regulator is bad. Quote Selected
No Run Problem Reply #43 – August 10, 2009, 10:22:44 PM By some miracle today, I was able to dump some fuel in the TBI and it started and kept running. I verified that the injectors were working and sure enough they are. The only thing I can think of is that possibly some moisture got into the fuel lines and perhaps it finally evaporated. I did put in Seafoam the last day off I had trying to get it to start. Perhaps it stabilized. I was able to run the engine for quite a while. No stall this time. I was actually able to move the car off to the side of my house so it would no longer take up my regular parking spot in the driveway. Hopefully it will keep running. However the engine has gray smoke coming out the tailpipe. Looks like it definitely needs an overhaul or remanufactured replacement. I also found oil dripping from the valve cover onto the exhaust manufold. Lots of work to do here, but hey I am happy it's running again! Quote Selected
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