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AC Refridgerent

What type of freon do our cars cars use stock?  R12 right?  I bought a can of the wrong one last summer, and it sucked.  I just gave it to a friend.

AC Refridgerent

Reply #1 –
R12 is stock. You can't buy it legally without a certification.

AC Refridgerent

Reply #2 –
....
It costs like 80 bucks here to have it recharged when you can go buy a can of the R134a at Walmart for like 20 bucks....

AC Refridgerent

Reply #3 –
buy the kit and charge it yourself but be carefull not to over charge the system or you could cause some serious problems

AC Refridgerent

Reply #4 –
Kit? What kit?

AC Refridgerent

Reply #5 –
Ask the parts store about some stuff called Freeze 12.  You still have to retrofit the fittings (probably only on the low side), but it's compatible with the R12 (won't matter cause there wont be any in there after you put the new fittings on) and the oil it uses, and it wont leak out like 132A does in old R12 systems.

AC Refridgerent

Reply #6 –
Cool, thanks man.

AC Refridgerent

Reply #7 –
I would not recommend mixing refrigerants, regardless of what it says on the can. Have the system evacuated, then charge it with whatever replacement you use.

I have Freeze12 in my car and it works great (colder than it ever was with R12), but there is some concern about the fact that freeze12 is highly flammable (it is essentially a mixture of propane, butane, and some other gases). I think it's illegal in some states because of this, but I'm not sure. I do know that according to the MSDS of the stuff in my car it has a higher flash point than 134A

I've also heard people say that it's hard on the compressor, but until I see scientific evidence of that I'll just chalk that up as people selling or using one product putting another product down. My compressor is now getting pretty noisey - whether that is because of the Freeze12 or the fact that it's an 18 year old compressor. It was a little noisey before I put Freeze12 in three years ago, but now it's getting bad (sounds like a supercharger :hick: ). I'll likely replace it this summer...
2015 Mustang GT Premium - 5.0, 6-speed, Guard Green - too much awesome for one car

1988 5.0 Thunderbird :birdsmily: SOLD SEPT 11 2010: TC front clip/hood ♣ Body & paint completed Oct 2007 ♣ 3.55 TC rear end and front brakes ♣ TC interior ♣ CHE rear control arms (adjustable lowers) ♣ 2001 Bullitt springs ♣ Energy suspension poly busings ♣ Kenne Brown subframe connectors ♣ CWE engine mounts ♣ Thundercat sequential turn signals ♣ Explorer overhead console (temp/compass display) ♣ 2.25" off-road dual exhaust ♣ T-5 transmission swap completed Jan 2009 ♣

AC Refridgerent

Reply #8 –
My compressor sounds like my air compressor in my garage... but its got 243k miles on it. 
 
I've not heard of freeze12 but knowing that it is a flamable gas would make me not use it.  I do know they dont sell it in Ohio.
One 88

AC Refridgerent

Reply #9 –
Flamability shouldn't scare anyone in a A/C system.  My old R12 sounds pretty harsh in my old '88 TC, but it blows cold; that's what matters to me!

If you need to (which sounds like you do), fill with Freeze 12, if the compresser shiznits out, replace with a j/k unit and dont worry until that one poops out.

AC Refridgerent

Reply #10 –
Quote
Flamability shouldn't scare anyone in a A/C system.
Okay, then. Just make sure the evaporator doesn't spring a leak, or you may have those lovely flammable gasses spraying at the fan motor and it's sparky-spark brushes, or out the dash vents into your face.

I think it's either Federal laws or DOT regulations that prohibit flammable sources (like gas lines) inside the passenger compartment, which is why Freeze12 (in the evaporator under the dash) is banned in many places.
Death awaits you all with nasty, big, pointy teeth.

1988 5.0 Bird, mostly stock, partly not, now gone to T-Bird heaven.
1990 Volvo 740GL. 114 tire-shredding horsies, baby!

AC Refridgerent

Reply #11 –
I had mine recharged with regular old R12.  Expensive?  A little.  But it's what the system was designed for and, IMHO, is the best thing to use.
-Jim
1987 Cougar LS 5.0

AC Refrigerant

Reply #12 –
One thing to keep in mind is it is illegal to mix R12 and Freeze-12, or R12 and anything else.

Freeze-12 is 80% R-134a and 20% R-142b. There isn't any propane/butane in Freeze-12.

The manufacturer recommends using the current mineral oil in the system and adding 3oz of ester oil. 134a isn't miscible with mineral oil; 142b is (and is also miscible with ester oil). Since 30% of the oil is carrying 80% of the refrigerant, you can see how oil starvation can be a problem.

Another downside to Freeze-12 (or any substitute) is the mixed composition. If you have a leak, the lightest component will leak out first. This leads to an ever-changing refrigerant composition which, if given enough leak/refill cycles, can cause oil starvation. Also, no reputable shop will touch a vehicle with a replacement blend in it (unless it is to recovery it into a junk container). Each blend requires a different set of gauges and recovery/recycling machines ($$$) since cross-contamination is to be avoided.

A "better" alternative to Freeze-12 is FR-12. It is 59% R-134a, 39% R-124, and 2% butane. This mixture will result in better oil miscibility than Freeze-12. Although the blend contains 2% butane, it is not considered a hydrocarbon refrigerant and is not considered a flammability risk.

Hydrocarbon refrigerants (Duracool, etc) are illegal to retrofit into R-12 systems. Some states also ban the sale of HC refrigerants.

Lastly, the group at ackits.com did a test of R-12, R-134a, Freeze-12, FR-12, and Autofrost. I've given a link...but the abridged results are...
At reasonable heat loads, FR-12 and Freeze-12 outperform R12 by a smidgeon (probably not enough to tell a difference by the SOTP meter). As the heat load goes up to the ridiculous region, R12 begins to outperform the blends. FR-12 and Freeze-12 have almost identical performance, notwithstanding the oil miscibility issues of Freeze-12.

Graphical Representation-









Links:
Refrigerant Blend Compositions - EPA
Unacceptable Substitute Refrigerants - EPA
Hydrocarbon FAQ - EPA
MACS Hydrocarbon Warning
ACKits Alternative Refrigerants Test

AC Refridgerent

Reply #13 –
Good info ^

AC Refridgerent

Reply #14 –
And with all that info, who's gonna call him a liar???

Great post Jeremy...