Running really rich February 11, 2006, 05:00:17 PM After failing emissions, which I was sure it was going to do, I went to running some tests on the car again. Same EGR/AIR codes that I pulled last summer (33,44,94) although the EGR valve/sensor and AIR solenoids have been replaced and the vacuum leaks have been fixed. Ran a cylinder balance test 3 times and all came back 90 (operating equally).So here it is, watching the exhaust, fuel is just splattering out. Did a tuneup 2 1/2 months ago and everything "seems" to be working properly and it runs well, although very rich. Any hint where I should start looking? Could the throttle body be causing problems as bad as this? It could use a rebuild or replacement I'm sure, being at 199,300 miles. Oxygen sensors SEEM alright but they're another possibility.Had a decent place look at it and they seem unsure whats causing the hydrocarbons to be off by THAT much.Emissions:Cruise:183PPM HC0.3% CO15% CO+CO20.076% O2Idle: 850rpm805PPM HC4.33% CO16.13% CO+CO20.81% O2edit:the exhaust color itself is normal (clear)The reason I'm stumped is because the car runs excellent, but only gets 20mpg in stop/go driving and another 20mpg during freeway travel. Idles fine, never dies. No hesitation or anything. Already have enough for the waiver ($150 in WA) but trying to decide whether its worth fixing this or finding a good HO in the near future Quote Selected
Running really rich Reply #1 – February 11, 2006, 06:02:41 PM Pull the vaspoogee hose off of your FPR and see if it is squirting gas. Quote Selected
Running really rich Reply #2 – February 11, 2006, 06:34:34 PM under the upper intake, correct? Have to work today but I'll try for tomorrowedit:nm, think I found it by getting up in there...not under the intake. Looks like the FPR but other than it idling slightly higher or smoother with the vacuum pulled, there's no fuel going anywhere Quote Selected
Running really rich Reply #3 – February 11, 2006, 07:40:17 PM Quoteunder the upper intake, correct? Have to work today but I'll try for tomorrowActually, it's kind of behind it...... The arrow points to the line..... Quote Selected
Running really rich Reply #4 – February 11, 2006, 07:48:02 PM yeah, I pulled that. No fuel going in the vacuum line and its sucking like it should.On a side note, the EGR valve itself should be creating vacuum, correct? Both directions at the EGR valve are completely dead - there's no air moving at all. Broke the line when re-checking vacuum under the hood so I'll have to replace it (was extremely brittle). TB not closing enough? This could cause quite a few problems Quote Selected
Running really rich Reply #5 – February 11, 2006, 08:00:55 PM Your throttle body adds air into the intake where the injectors are further downstream. If it were not closing enough (ie. stuck partially open) I would suspect your idle RPM would be a bit higher than normal and noticeable at that. Start with the basics to make sure everything else is working right set your idle and adjust your TPS. Here's how:QuoteA common problem in the EEC-IV controlled 302 Mustangs is a hunting idle. This is an idle which fluctuates in RPM up and down and up and down....It can be very annoying. There are a lot of tricks people use to try to fix this problem. Most of them don't work. One common trick (that doesn't work) is to try to "fool" the EEC-IV into thinking the engine is still in warm-up. This is accomplished by installing a low temp thermostat and/or removing the ECT (engine coolant temperature) sensor. It fails when the HEGO sensors detect a too rich fuel mixture, and the EEC-IV compensates by leaning the mixture out. Now you're back to the hunting idle. The EEC-IV is programmed to idle the car at 672 RPM. Incorrect throttle plate position is ithe primary cause of the problem in most cars. To adjust this, back the screw out until it no longer touches the throttle plate stop. Insert a 0.010 feeler gauge between the screw and the stop and turn the screw until it touches the feeler gauge. Then turn the screw another 1.5 turns. Then adjust the TPS (throttle position sensor) to 0.98V. Also as far as the EGR is concerned was the line just clogged or is the diaphram inside the valve bad?Keep in mind the idle adjustment is for a stock cam whether it's an SO or HO. Aftermarket cams usually need a little more RPM. Quote Selected
Running really rich Reply #6 – February 11, 2006, 08:11:11 PM I'm not sure what the actual idle rpm's are, just gave the number the emissions place had on the report. The "stock" gauge is around 700rpm's after initial warmup. I haven't had the idle surge up and down on me since the tuneup - and cylinder 8 was fouled beyond function.On the EGR side, it has a brand new (as of a few days ago) Motorcraft valve and sensor so it should be creating vacuum, but it isn't. Quote Selected
Running really rich Reply #7 – February 11, 2006, 08:56:12 PM what about the fuel injector on #8 cylinder,,,leakink o-ring (seal) Quote Selected
Running really rich Reply #8 – February 11, 2006, 09:00:46 PM I tried adjusting the idle screw but its already out as far as it'll go without coming out...and as for TPS, I don't understand what people say about adjusting that and how to test. Testing is a bit of a pain (green and black wire?) but I don't know how to properly adjust the thing. So I don't take the screws all the way out?Either way, be back tomorrow. Off to work.edit:pulled iac (I think, front of TB?)and it dies, will not stay running until I plug it back in Quote Selected
Running really rich Reply #9 – February 12, 2006, 06:58:12 PM Have you pulled the codes? Not sure on other engines, but the EGR doesn't open at idle on the 2.3s, so there wouldn't be vacuum in the line to the valve Quote Selected
Running really rich Reply #10 – February 12, 2006, 07:14:10 PM Code 33 KOEOCodes 33, 44, and 94 KOERCode 90 three times during the cylinder balance testThere's no vacuum at the egr valve when increasing the throttle Quote Selected
Running really rich Reply #11 – February 15, 2006, 11:18:10 PM Code 33=EGR valve not opening.The EGR does not create vacuum. It is opened by vacuum. A solinoid controlled vacuum valve operated by the EEC supplies the vacuum.Hook a vacuum gauge to the EGR vacuum hose and run KOER test. At some point in the test it should try to open the the EGR.No Vac? If the solinoid were bad it should give a 83 or 84 code so check the vacuum tube between the solinoid and the egr.Yes vac? With a vacuum pump apply 6-8 in of vac to the vac connection on the EGR with the engine idling. The engine should stumble when the EGR valve opens.Valve opens? The EEC is not "seeing" the EGR position sensor move to the open valve voltage level.Better yet since you also have 44 and 94 codes (thermactor not operating) you maybe missing the vacuum to all of the control solinoids. Quote Selected
Running really rich Reply #12 – February 16, 2006, 03:04:58 AM You say you have gas running out of the exhaust pipe??Are you sure it is not water from condensation in a cold exhaust.Can you give some details about your car? What year, is it stock, what kind of fuel delivery system,etc. Quote Selected
Running really rich Reply #13 – February 16, 2006, 01:44:43 PM actually, later that day I went to smell the liquid and although it did smell faint of fuel, it seems to mostly be water. The odd thing though is that the car wasn't cold at all and I had just gotten back from a 40 minute drive...and the liquid came more rapidly as time went on. The car doesn't use coolant (with an exception of the washer fluid bottle always going empty on its own) and everything appears fine from the rear (black pipes though).About the vacuum, I feel vacuum at one hose going to the solenoid, but never anything coming out the other - at any engine speed. No codes 83/84.This is just a stock 88 Sport with 199,500 on the odometer. Has always had slight valve clatter on the drivers side rear of the engine, oil pressure reads low at the cluster but manual testing a couple years ago showed good oil pressure. Other than that, it runs and idles perfectly - just not optimally on the economy and emissions.A question though, where would I find suitable replacement vacuum hoses for these emissions devices? I cracked the EGR hose when checking for vacuum last weekend. Parts stores don't seem to carry anything that'll work for these replacements. Quote Selected
Running really rich Reply #14 – February 16, 2006, 03:41:30 PM Any rubber hose the correct inside diameter will be fine, it's 1/8" I believe(maybe 1/16")... You don't need the thin plastic stuff the factory used(cheap)....The EGR solenoid should open if you hold the engine at 1500-1800 rpms. If it has vac and is not opening likely it's bad, had one fail on the old '86 Grand Marquis several years ago.. Quote Selected
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