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Topic: Moon's workin on stuff thread (Read 4191 times) previous topic - next topic

Moon's workin on stuff thread

Well at the request of Stealth I am gonna do little updates on the progress of his old bird and I guess I'll throw in some stuff of my cougar too.

I was just gonna slap on an HO upper intake, but the lower intake was leaking everywhere and I thought it would be a good time to get rid of that nasty lifter tick. The valvetrain wasn't in as good of shape as I was hoping.

Underneath of the lower intake
https://imgur.com/a/AZFvsjS

Soaking the lower intake, pushrods, rockers and spider overnight in Pine Sol
https://imgur.com/a/QAzKQL5

Tons of sludge caked in the valley
https://imgur.com/a/N4lINp0

All of the lifters are completely seized. Usually I rebuild my sbf lifters to save money, but I could only get the upper part of the lifters out. I'm gonna soak them overnight in diesel to try and get them apart for cleaning
https://imgur.com/a/kMvC6tv

The rockers are filled with so much sludge that I actually had trouble getting the bolts out and the rockers separated from their channels
https://imgur.com/a/kYa8P5i

Tiny bit of the sledge I sped out. I ended up using three cans of brake clean, a flat head screwdriver and an unholy amount of rags and paper towels to clean it out
https://imgur.com/a/MFD5VOG

Part way through cleaning the valley
https://imgur.com/a/iBqjTYK


The condition of the valvetrain in this car is of no fault of Stealth. He changed the oil meticulously, but the quality and technology of oil in the past was absolute garbage. It's one of the reasons cars used to wear out so quickly. While my Cougar had way less sludge build up in the valley and on the rockers the lifters were filled with more sludge than the bird. Although they still worked, they did have a slight tick. So I tore them apart soaked them in de greaser and washed them. Then I soaked them in diesel for a day and they haven't made a sound since.
88 Cougar
88 T-Bird
other cars that don't apply to this forum

Moon's workin on stuff thread

Reply #1 –
I've come across that exact same thing with most of the older cars I've purchased. Between the older technology oils, and most cars not properly warming up enough to burn off the  in the oil, you get results like this.

I would always change the oil with 3 quarts of cheap oil, and two quarts of ATF. Drive it around for a few days with no hard driving, and then change it while it was still hot. That would remove huge amounts of . The oil/ATF mix almost always looked like black ink when it was drained.
It's Gumby's fault.

Moon's workin on stuff thread

Reply #2 –
The lifter valley doesn't look too bad.  Obviously like you said the lifters need help.

The worst I had ever seen was on my '79 Bird with a 302.  I removed the intake and there was an impression of the intake bottom in the sludge.  Never seen any ting like it or anything like it again.  I was amazed not in a good way.
1988 Thunderbird TC, 5spd
Stinger 3" single exhaust, Cone Filter, Adjustable Cam Pulley, Schneider roller cam, Walbro 255 lph, AEM Wideband O2
'93 Mustang Cobra replica wheels on 235/50R17

'21 F150 Powerboost
'17 Husqvarna TX300

Moon's workin on stuff thread

Reply #3 –
Welp, update on those lifters. An overnight soak didn't budge them so I'll let them soak for a couple more days. If they end up not being saveable I'll order a good used set off of ebay.
88 Cougar
88 T-Bird
other cars that don't apply to this forum

Moon's workin on stuff thread

Reply #4 –
IMO - I would replace them.  The springs may be sacked at this point and if any other sludge is stuck in them it may not allow them to pump up.  Have you checked the lifter oil passages if they are caked up too?
1988 Thunderbird TC, 5spd
Stinger 3" single exhaust, Cone Filter, Adjustable Cam Pulley, Schneider roller cam, Walbro 255 lph, AEM Wideband O2
'93 Mustang Cobra replica wheels on 235/50R17

'21 F150 Powerboost
'17 Husqvarna TX300

Moon's workin on stuff thread

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Mikey97D;467859
IMO - I would replace them.  The springs may be sacked at this point and if any other sludge is stuck in them it may not allow them to pump up.  Have you checked the lifter oil passages if they are caked up too?

Im replacing them I usually take them apart and clean them while watching my shows, but these are completely seized. How would you recommend cleaning the lifter oil passages?
88 Cougar
88 T-Bird
other cars that don't apply to this forum

Moon's workin on stuff thread

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Moonmount;467867
Im replacing them I usually take them apart and clean them while watching my shows, but these are completely seized. How would you recommend cleaning the lifter oil passages?
Unfortunately I have no idea, but if the lifters are all caked up I would guess those oil passages are not too clear either.
1988 Thunderbird TC, 5spd
Stinger 3" single exhaust, Cone Filter, Adjustable Cam Pulley, Schneider roller cam, Walbro 255 lph, AEM Wideband O2
'93 Mustang Cobra replica wheels on 235/50R17

'21 F150 Powerboost
'17 Husqvarna TX300
 

Moon's workin on stuff thread

Reply #7 –
! I thought the rear seal was changing the oil for me... That will be the third time the valley and valve covers have been shoveled clean on that engine. Hope not much of that sludge got down to the pan, because it is almost impossible to R&R the pan with the engine in the car. Probably easier to just pull it. So, how do you like my new avatar?

Moon's workin on stuff thread

Reply #8 –
be sure to clean or replace the filter under the PCV valve, it clogs up too.

Moon's workin on stuff thread

Reply #9 –
Yup, got a new pcv valve, screen and grommet on the way. I'm gonna throw it back together when those arrive. He valve train is all nice and clean and I figured ot a way to clean the sludge out. Hopefully it works
88 Cougar
88 T-Bird
other cars that don't apply to this forum

Moon's workin on stuff thread

Reply #10 –
Been having trouble with my computer. So I haven't been able to upload pics, but I've got her back together and my solution to any sludge build up was to fill the motor with about 4.5 gallons of diesel, run the oil pump and let her soak for a couple days. I also cleaned the rockers and pushrods and replaced any worn ones with good ones from my spare parts. I then filled the motor with 3qts oil, 2 qts atf and ran her for a few hours. Car no longer has a lifter tick and no longer leaks any oil from the intake. Overall runs like a charm and you wouldn't believe this, but when I re-stabbed the distributor it was timing perfectly at 10 degrees btd. Now onto the bad news she doesn't fit in my garage the car is simply too long and wide so I have to pick up a portable garage from harbor freight when I can. I'll try to post pics and updates when I work on my two old girls, but winter is here and that makes it a bit difficult and my health is not the best atm.
88 Cougar
88 T-Bird
other cars that don't apply to this forum

Moon's workin on stuff thread

Reply #11 –
Well I figured out a way to get those pics off of my phone.

The diesel soak and oil pump running. Whatever sealant you used stealth was some tough stuff!
https://imgur.com/a/CqryhQI

and here is my sweet driver side manual seat track
https://imgur.com/a/ceugGgH

The cougars front end is still off the car hopefully I can get to that car soon, but my funds are currently taken up by my other cars.
88 Cougar
88 T-Bird
other cars that don't apply to this forum

Moon's workin on stuff thread

Reply #12 –
Thanks for the update and glad you figured a way to clean any other sludge out.  Good to not hear the lifter ticks anymore.
1988 Thunderbird TC, 5spd
Stinger 3" single exhaust, Cone Filter, Adjustable Cam Pulley, Schneider roller cam, Walbro 255 lph, AEM Wideband O2
'93 Mustang Cobra replica wheels on 235/50R17

'21 F150 Powerboost
'17 Husqvarna TX300

Moon's workin on stuff thread

Reply #13 –
Good job cleaning the motor. One must get creative to get the crud out and every flush is different. Running the engine with solvent-thinned oil as you did is the key, as it warms up the sludge and agitates it into suspension so you can drain it out. I have run customers' cars with a gallon of Berryman's B-12 and a couple quarts of cheap SAE30 oil, but not under a load, just in the shop for a half hour or so. The only risk is that all the loose stuff that does not come out the drain plug may stop up the oil pump screen. Then you have to do it the hard way. The gray sealer is HondaBond HT. Honda dealers can get it, or maybe online? It is an enhanced silicone that sets very firm and resists everything known to man. There are various versions of HondaBond for different purposes, but the HT is best I have found for coolant passage gaskets, and also the gasketless joints on newer engines. Get some, you'll like it. And don't feel bad about the car sitting outside, it spent the first 17 years outside in Texas.

Moon's workin on stuff thread

Reply #14 –
Thanks for the car, Stealth! I had to get some "catalytic converters" welded in to pass inspection, then the inspection guy wanted to fail the car because he couldn't figure out how to turn on the headlights.

Little update on the cars and on life.

Got started on removing A/C on the Cougar
https://imgur.com/a/IfNax2W

Going to be testing a 40$ electric fan and controller kit off of Ebay and a thermostat housing with a 3/8npt hole in it. I figure that this car is a pretty good test bed for stuff I'm curious about.
https://imgur.com/a/nVsQALo

Also I've flushed the coolant once on this car and this same problem keeps popping up. I don't really care since this motor is pretty junk anyways, but I can't tell whether its oil or just rust.
https://imgur.com/a/4qGoyiL

Don't have a pic, but I replaced the parking lamp housing on the Thunderbird. I am currently look for a new trim piece. Other parts I am looking for are fenders without parking lamps which I may have found at a junkyard on car-part, and of course a good non rusty passenger quarter and rocker.

Now onto the Thunderbird. I ordered a set of MM solid steering rack bushings to put on the car. Actually I accidentally ordered two sets, since I'll probably pick up another fox someday I'll already have a set ready to go on. I'm waiting on the right time to install the rack bushings. I have put a fresh set of tires on it, but it still has a shake. Seeing how in my recent parts haul I now have enough brake parts just laying around to do a brake and bearing job I'll do that as time permits. Now I have been forced to DD this car seeing as how my Chrysler is doing Chrysler things and my Honda finally bit the dust. Now there is also the part where I am making a career change. I am unable to do the massive amount of overtime required by my duty as a Correction Officer while attending college. So I am applying for part time and full time positions elsewhere. Sadly these positions pay much less and any work on my cars is going to have to have to slow down. On a brighter note I am just one caliper, two brake line adapters, two wheels and tires away from completing the fox spindle 5 lug swap on the Cougar. I ended up ordering Moog replacement front control arms for an sn95 Mustang and Moog fox ball joints.
88 Cougar
88 T-Bird
other cars that don't apply to this forum