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Topic: Puzzling/ Happy Motor? (Read 11066 times) previous topic - next topic

Puzzling/ Happy Motor?

Reply #15 –
Quote from: 88Merc50;454490
order #15426378

Non HO firing order.
41 Dodge Luxury Liner Sedan
78 F-100 2wd flareside
84Turbo Coupe
84 Thunderbird Élan
85 Thunderbird 3.8
88 Turbo Coupe
88 Mustang GT
90 Stang LX 5.0 5spd
93 F-150 4x4 ext cab
96 Mustang GT
98 Mustang GT
99 SVT Cobra
06 Fusion SEL
14 Fusion Sport

Puzzling/ Happy Motor?

Reply #16 –
Hi i see the links you guys have sent, with all hooked up car never had any 'check' engine light, just would never idle correcttly even with new iac, and car always seemed like it was not breathing properly, now it breath good and run strong, thats why it has me puzzled. will find out more about motor tomorrow after i tear off injection.

Puzzling/ Happy Motor?

Reply #17 –
You need a buddy named B.O.B and a DVOM.  I'm curious about where your ECT and HEGOs measure at when both cold and hot.  For that, you need a 60-pin breakout box (b.o.b.)  I also want to know what your Vref measures out to, KOEO, with everything plugged in vs the way you say it runs best.

Puzzling/ Happy Motor?

Reply #18 –
Quote from: TheFoeYouKnow;454497
You need a buddy named B.O.B and a DVOM.  I'm curious about where your ECT and HEGOs measure at when both cold and hot.  For that, you need a 60-pin breakout box (b.o.b.)  I also want to know what your Vref measures out to, KOEO, with everything plugged in vs the way you say it runs best.

You may have lost him lol
41 Dodge Luxury Liner Sedan
78 F-100 2wd flareside
84Turbo Coupe
84 Thunderbird Élan
85 Thunderbird 3.8
88 Turbo Coupe
88 Mustang GT
90 Stang LX 5.0 5spd
93 F-150 4x4 ext cab
96 Mustang GT
98 Mustang GT
99 SVT Cobra
06 Fusion SEL
14 Fusion Sport

Puzzling/ Happy Motor?

Reply #19 –
Computer number comes up as 89-90 thunder bird 5.0 non h.o. even though that doesn't make any sense. Sounds like a non h.o. ecm, probably stock.
Quote from: jcassity
I honestly dont think you could exceed the cost of a new car buy installing new *stock* parts everywhere in your coug our tbird. Its just plain impossible. You could revamp the entire drivetrain/engine/suspenstion and still come out ahead.
Hooligans! 
1988 Crown Vic wagon. 120K California car. Wifes grocery getter. (junked)
1987 Ford Thunderbird LX. 5.0. s.o., sn-95 t-5 and an f-150 clutch. Driven daily and going strong.
1986 cougar.
lilsammywasapunkrocker@yahoo.com

Puzzling/ Happy Motor?

Reply #20 –
Someone either swapped your engine...OR intake manifold...OR dash cluster. Do you have the digital "Star Wars" dash? Or buttstuffog sweeping speedometer and tach?

Yes the post is hilarious because you just kept disconnecting things. But what's great is this is just another instance that proves how robust EEC-IV is. I did basically all of this too when I was a teenager. Ford built in a lot of "simple failure" modes to keep you on the road so you can limp home. But don't leave it like that, all of these things can be made right as people have talked about above. Follow the directions V8Demon posted. They'll work :)

By that many miles the EGR it has probably gunked up your intake a bit. Fact of life. Disable it if you want to by putting a piece of tape over the port and then reconnecting the vacuum line, but do NOT disconnect the electrical harness plug. The computer needs to know what the valve is doing otherwise you'll have trouble there.

Get some O2 sensor extensions like these: http://www.americanmuscle.com/bbk-o2-extension-harnesses.html  This is an annoyance we ALL gotta deal with unfortunately when running headers.
Clean your IAC out good make sure it works. It's not the safest way, but if you're very careful use alligator clips to put 12v from a battery directly to it in VERY SHORT bursts. Make sure it actually moves.
As people have said, do the Base Idle Reset procedure when you've got a known good IAC.
1987 20th Anniversary Cougar, 302 "5.0" GT-40 heads (F3ZE '93 Cobra) and TMoss Ported H.O. intake, H.O. camshaft
2.5" Duals, no cats, Flowmaster 40s, Richmond 3.73s w/ Trac-Lok, maxed out Baumann shift kit, 3000 RPM Dirty Dog non-lock TC
Aside from the Mustang crinkle headers, still looks like it's only 150 HP...
1988 Black XR7 Trick Flow top end, Tremec 3550
1988 Black XR7 Procharger P600B intercooled, Edelbrock Performer non-RPM heads, GT40 intake AOD, 13 PSI @5000 RPM. 93 octane

Puzzling/ Happy Motor?

Reply #21 –
Quote from: ZondaC12;454523


By that many miles the EGR it has probably gunked up your intake a bit. Fact of life. Disable it if you want to by putting a piece of tape over the port and then reconnecting the vacuum line, but do NOT disconnect the electrical harness plug. The computer needs to know what the valve is doing otherwise you'll have trouble there.



DO NOT delete the EGR in this manner. The car will ping and run like . The proper way to delete the EGR is the remove the valve, position sensor, and the EGR control solenoid and cap the vacuum lines leading to them. Install a block off plate over the hole in the EGR spacer. This will trigger a code and disable EGR function in the computer (i.e. turn off spark advance for functional EGR). You can use one of these eliminator plugs: https://lmr.com/item/LRS-9428A-EP/Mustang-EGR-Eliminator-Plug-86-93 to keep the check engine light off.

Following the procedure Zonda posted will cause the computer to think the EGR valve is functional. This will result in the computer adjusting timing based on a functional EGR system resulting in pinging and driveability issues at part throttle.

The ONLY proper way to remove the EGR system is to remove all components of the system and block off the flow of exhaust gas at the EGR spacer.
88 Thunderbird LX: 306, Edelbrock Performer heads, Comp 266HR cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, bunch of other stuff.

Puzzling/ Happy Motor?

Reply #22 –
Update, ok this is weird, usually says 302 in the intake valley but it says XXX and it is a roller motor, also on heads only number i could find was 7m15 im assuming thats production date. also on  the pad on back of block couldnt find block #, could this be a factory ford replacement motor?

Puzzling/ Happy Motor?

Reply #23 –
I did remove all components and put a egr block off plate on it.

Puzzling/ Happy Motor?

Reply #24 –
I've had the EGR disabled that way for years on the red car. The only time I've ever heard pinging with any of my vehicles at low RPMs/speeds was in my 'Vic which ran rich due to speed density + poor-vacuum-camsaft.

The red car, after a long time of running 87 octane, seemed to start pinging at ~5-6K on some LONG high-speed pulls late last fall. I since switched to 93. I don't know how I got away with 87 for so long. Maybe the converter, which doesn't let the motor get lugged very much.

Doesn't the ECU use that position sensor to decide a theoretical exhaust flow and then adjust timing from there?
So if it never sees the valve move, it *should* consider that a failure mode like a broken diaphragm or vac line. Though in this case without an actual vac leak.

How long has that plug been available? Back when I did it what I was told was exactly what I didn't want - that I'd have a CEL and possibly issues because the sensor was not there. FWIW I have run without it before by accident and things weren't exactly bad.
1987 20th Anniversary Cougar, 302 "5.0" GT-40 heads (F3ZE '93 Cobra) and TMoss Ported H.O. intake, H.O. camshaft
2.5" Duals, no cats, Flowmaster 40s, Richmond 3.73s w/ Trac-Lok, maxed out Baumann shift kit, 3000 RPM Dirty Dog non-lock TC
Aside from the Mustang crinkle headers, still looks like it's only 150 HP...
1988 Black XR7 Trick Flow top end, Tremec 3550
1988 Black XR7 Procharger P600B intercooled, Edelbrock Performer non-RPM heads, GT40 intake AOD, 13 PSI @5000 RPM. 93 octane

Puzzling/ Happy Motor?

Reply #25 –
Quote from: 88Merc50;454539
Update, ok this is weird, usually says 302 in the intake valley but it says XXX and it is a roller motor, also on heads only number i could find was 7m15 im assuming thats production date. also on  the pad on back of block couldnt find block #, could this be a factory ford replacement motor?


I have never seen a roller block with 302 in the valley, XXX or YYY is the norm...

7M15 is 15th day of Dec, 1987... They are '88 production heads...

You could have measured a push rod to determine if it was roller, approx 1/2" shorter than flat tappet push rods...

Puzzling/ Happy Motor?

Reply #26 –
Is there a valley spider and lifter dogbones in the lifter valley? Post a pic of you could.
41 Dodge Luxury Liner Sedan
78 F-100 2wd flareside
84Turbo Coupe
84 Thunderbird Élan
85 Thunderbird 3.8
88 Turbo Coupe
88 Mustang GT
90 Stang LX 5.0 5spd
93 F-150 4x4 ext cab
96 Mustang GT
98 Mustang GT
99 SVT Cobra
06 Fusion SEL
14 Fusion Sport

Puzzling/ Happy Motor?

Reply #27 –
Quote from: ZondaC12;454542
I've had the EGR disabled that way for years on the red car. The only time I've ever heard pinging with any of my vehicles at low RPMs/speeds was in my 'Vic which ran rich due to speed density + poor-vacuum-camsaft.

The red car, after a long time of running 87 octane, seemed to start pinging at ~5-6K on some LONG high-speed pulls late last fall. I since switched to 93. I don't know how I got away with 87 for so long. Maybe the converter, which doesn't let the motor get lugged very much.

Doesn't the ECU use that position sensor to decide a theoretical exhaust flow and then adjust timing from there?
So if it never sees the valve move, it *should* consider that a failure mode like a broken diaphragm or vac line. Though in this case without an actual vac leak.

How long has that plug been available? Back when I did it what I was told was exactly what I didn't want - that I'd have a CEL and possibly issues because the sensor was not there. FWIW I have run without it before by accident and things weren't exactly bad.



Once you remove the EGR position sensor and the EGR solenoid the computer completely disables the EGR function. Yes it does set codes but they cause NO driveability issues. All the plug does is set a code 33 (evp stuck) which disables the EGR function and doesn't light the check engine light.

I eliminated the EGR system per my above post and have had no issues. It is the approved method of sbftech EEC-IV guru Joel5.0. If the EGR on your red Cougar isn't removed in the fashion I have listed above I suggest you change it to match what I have done. It is the only correct way to remove the EGR function from an EEC-IV 5.0 car.
88 Thunderbird LX: 306, Edelbrock Performer heads, Comp 266HR cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, bunch of other stuff.

Puzzling/ Happy Motor?

Reply #28 –
I should not that blocking the EGR gases and not removing the vacuum from the EGR system allows the system to operate. This means that the computer assumes that EGR gasses are flowing into the intake even though the passage is blocked. This can cause pinging as the computer actually adds more timing with EGR gasses flowing. Without the exhaust gas present to cool the combustion chamber knock will occur with the advanced timing.
88 Thunderbird LX: 306, Edelbrock Performer heads, Comp 266HR cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, bunch of other stuff.

Puzzling/ Happy Motor?

Reply #29 –
Hi; yes it does have the spider and roller lifters, and they are def XXX not YYY im wondering if its a ford replacement block? all back together now, i hooked back up IAC and did all settings. next project is to replace timing chain, has a little play, got a nice gear drive for it.