Burning rich and stalls out

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Burning rich and stalls out

Reply #15 – November 29, 2015, 07:42:23 PM

Quote from: TheFoeYouKnow;452627

Stock ho Injectors are ev6.

Actually stock HO injectors are EV1: http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?963949-Will-a-EV1-injector-fit-on-a-99-01-intake

Explore injectors are EV6 injectors with EV1 Jetronic style connectors.

Burning rich and stalls out

Reply #16 – November 29, 2015, 08:00:47 PM

Regardless, they're different. Are they the same impedance, are their slopes the same? The breakpoint? The voltage offset? Using the p headed Explorer injectors represents a serious variance in injector specs, and is the largest factor in any problems with fuel metering you may have.

Burning rich and stalls out

Reply #17 – November 29, 2015, 10:00:11 PM

Quote from: thunderjet302;452598

Your car may smell rich but in actuality it may be running fine. Without catalytic converters your car is going to smell rich at idle. Before you do ANYTHING else you really need to check for codes. Doing anything else before checking for codes and correcting any that come up is a waste of time and money. Here's how to check for codes, both KOEO and KOER:
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,2471.0.html

Check for KOEO, KOER, and cylinder balance test codes. Here's a list of the code explanations:
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,849.0.html

If you're not sure what a code means post back here and we can help. Once you've corrected all the issues caused by the codes you will probably have to do a base idle reset to get everything to run well (especially due to your cam choice). Here is how to correctly preform a base idle reset: http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,1031.0.html

From what I know, it's a stock MAF sensor with an SR Cold Air Intake and 58mm Mustang TB. Stock explorer injectors.
I adjusted idle and seems to be running much better. I have no catalytic converters, so that is probably contributing to most of the smell. Still would like to check codes, thanks for the links!

Burning rich and stalls out

Reply #18 – November 30, 2015, 01:45:19 PM

Quote from: TheFoeYouKnow;452648

Regardless, they're different. Are they the same impedance, are their slopes the same? The breakpoint? The voltage offset? Using the p headed Explorer injectors represents a serious variance in injector specs, and is the largest factor in any problems with fuel metering you may have.

The slopes, break point, etc are different than the stock HO injectors but they are close. There are people who have run them with a stock A9L/A9P without changing anything and have been fine. It won't work in every case but the Explorer injectors have been proven to work most of the time without issue.

I think his big issue is a code or idle speed issue. The FRPP alphabet cams tend to like a higher idle speed so that is probably part of the issue as well.

Burning rich and stalls out

Reply #19 – November 30, 2015, 04:41:26 PM

Running codes is by far the easiest and cheapest trouble shooting step, as well as only taking about 2 mins and usually telling you exactly what is wrong.

But most people would rather spend time and money on things they don't need then fix and drive the car.

Burning rich and stalls out

Reply #20 – December 06, 2015, 11:19:57 AM

Quote from: Haystack;452675

Running codes is by far the easiest and cheapest trouble shooting step, as well as only taking about 2 mins and usually telling you exactly what is wrong.

But most people would rather spend time and money on things they don't need then fix and drive the car.

1000x THIS.

Burning rich and stalls out

Reply #21 – December 06, 2015, 10:12:09 PM

Thanks guys. I'll keep you all updated.

Burning rich and stalls out

Reply #22 – September 05, 2018, 08:13:19 PM

Alright everyone - I'm older and a tiny bit smarter now. The car has been driven less than 1000 miles over the last 3 years. And now that I'm finished with college, I now have my own garage AND time to do what I've been needing to do for a while.

*note* Stalling is not an issue anymore. Throttle just needed adjustment. And the car is not running rich, but is very lean.

Here are the codes with my best guess on the issue:

FOER
21 Coolant temperature/sensor out of specified range - Temp gauge was telling me I was overheating, but the car never seemed to ACTUALLY be overheating. Always kept coolant full and just replacted thermostat, housing, and water pump. Replaced the stock temp gauge sensor but was giving me a reading that was bouncing back and forth, so I went aftermarket to see if I could get an accurate reading. Looks like I run 180-190 on an average day with no crazy readings.

41 Lean fuel mixture - Using 19lbers, and guy at the dyno says he can tune it to solve lean fuel mixture. I'm sure the car needs a tune, BUT I'm pretty sure I'm running an aftermarket MAF and really have no information on it its size/specifications.

91 Oxygen sensor issue, fuel pressure out of specified range or injectors out of balance - I never hooked O2s back up when I installed the X-pipe because I needed an extension for them. I guess I should probably do that?

33 Canister or EGR valve not operating properly - honestly not sure here. Pretty sure I deleted everything EGR but kept the spacer and hooked sensors and what not back up. Probably where this is coming from?

Addressing my lean fuel mixture: is this an issue that can mostly be solved by switching to larger injectors (let's say 24lbers?) and switching to a MAF that is calibrated specifically the injector size? Or should my focus be on having the car professionally tuned to solve the lean mix? OR combination of the two?

Chime in as you please.

Burning rich and stalls out

Reply #23 – September 05, 2018, 08:20:45 PM

There are two coolant sensors, one on the intake and one on the heater core pipes on top of the intake

Between that and the o2 sensors, is fix those two things before you throw any more money at it. Ignore the egr for now.

Burning rich and stalls out

Reply #24 – September 05, 2018, 09:01:26 PM

This. But also:
If you go to 24's you're going to either want an X3Z EEC or a tune. Calibrated MAFs cause problems as often as they don't. With an automatic, you're going to want a favorable spark table, and that works best with an accurate load calculation (basically, calculated volumetric efficiency or VE). Calibrated MAFs skew the load calc.
I tune with a Moates Quarterhorse and I love it. I even have a bluetooth adapter connected to it now so I can datalog to my phone, or connect wirelessly with my laptop for really quick access to tuning.

Burning rich and stalls out

Reply #25 – September 06, 2018, 05:50:10 PM

Quote from: GDawg148;466974

Alright everyone - I'm older and a tiny bit smarter now. The car has been driven less than 1000 miles over the last 3 years. And now that I'm finished with college, I now have my own garage AND time to do what I've been needing to do for a while.

*note* Stalling is not an issue anymore. Throttle just needed adjustment. And the car is not running rich, but is very lean.

Here are the codes with my best guess on the issue:

FOER
21 Coolant temperature/sensor out of specified range - Temp gauge was telling me I was overheating, but the car never seemed to ACTUALLY be overheating. Always kept coolant full and just replacted thermostat, housing, and water pump. Replaced the stock temp gauge sensor but was giving me a reading that was bouncing back and forth, so I went aftermarket to see if I could get an accurate reading. Looks like I run 180-190 on an average day with no crazy readings.

41 Lean fuel mixture - Using 19lbers, and guy at the dyno says he can tune it to solve lean fuel mixture. I'm sure the car needs a tune, BUT I'm pretty sure I'm running an aftermarket MAF and really have no information on it its size/specifications.

91 Oxygen sensor issue, fuel pressure out of specified range or injectors out of balance - I never hooked O2s back up when I installed the X-pipe because I needed an extension for them. I guess I should probably do that?

33 Canister or EGR valve not operating properly - honestly not sure here. Pretty sure I deleted everything EGR but kept the spacer and hooked sensors and what not back up. Probably where this is coming from?

Addressing my lean fuel mixture: is this an issue that can mostly be solved by switching to larger injectors (let's say 24lbers?) and switching to a MAF that is calibrated specifically the injector size? Or should my focus be on having the car professionally tuned to solve the lean mix? OR combination of the two?

Chime in as you please.

41 and 91 are lean left/right bank. You're getting those codes BECAUSE THE O2 SENSORS ARE NOT HOOKED UP. Hook the O2 sensors up before a tune or doing much anything else. Secondly replace the EEC-IV temperature sender in the heater pipe. That is causing the code 21.

Burning rich and stalls out

Reply #26 – September 30, 2018, 07:01:39 PM

Thanks for the insight guys.

O2s are hooked back up and replaced the other coolant temp sensor (passenger side). Ran codes and here's what I came up with:

21 Coolant temperature/sensor out of specified range - still being thrown even though I replaced passenger side sensor. I'm going to remove aftermarket gauge so I can hook the driver side sensor back up.
94 Secondary air system inoperative & 44 Air management system inoperative - I assume these have something to do with me deleting my air pump from a few years ago.
33 Canister or EGR valve not operating properly - still being thrown
13 Normal idle not within specified range - I can adjust idle to make this code go away I assume?

Burning rich and stalls out

Reply #27 – September 30, 2018, 07:53:16 PM

Do the coolant temp sensor. The one in the heater pipe is the one the computer sees. The other one is just for the gauge.

After that, id ignore the other codes. Do a basic tube up. The spark plugs might be all sooty from running rich for so long.

You are on the right track.

Burning rich and stalls out

Reply #28 – September 30, 2018, 10:48:50 PM

Track down 21 first. If all the emissions stuff is gone the only other code to worry about is 13. If you adjusted the idle using the factory tach that could be an issue. The factory tachs are horribly inaccurate. I actually purchased a tach/dwell meter just to get an accurate tach for idle adjustment.