Marti Report Reply #30 – July 10, 2014, 05:46:04 PM Quote from: BCA;435731So all of his Deluxe series reports contain: Paint CodePaint / Trim CodeEngine / Transmission CodeDSOAnd then one more breakdown of their choosing that might be of interest. Personally I could care less about the how many were ordered with the same DSO number. In your report directly under the STATISTICS, I think it would be better if it stated it like:For 1983 there were 121,999 Thunderbird 2-Door Sedans builtYour vehicle was one of: 29,786 ordered with Heritage trim group And on Thunderjet302’s report:For 1988 there were 147,243 Thunderbird 2-Door Sedans built Your vehicle was one of: xx,xxx ordered with LX trim groupBy listing the total number of the Thunderbirds/Cougars built, then listing the production number of the trim level, and then a breakdown of the paint etc., it would give the owner a better idea of how many of their particular car were built that year.Trying not to be too critical of his reports, but I think that the Statistics section could use a bit of work so that the breakdown numbers he shows could be taken more into context. There is plenty of room on that report to add another couple more lines of text without getting real specific like the Elite report does.Like Eric, between the Ford 999 report, having a copy of my cars original invoice, and being that I purchased it from the original owner, I pretty much have most of what's in the report. However I’ve always wondered what the manual vs. automatic build ratio was on my car so I think I’m going to going to bite the bullet and order one of these before the price goes up.I would have liked "xx,xxx ordered with the LX trim group" info as well. I've been curious if there were more LX or Turbo Coupe Thunderbirds produced in '88. From what I've seen of cars for sale it has been Base>Turbo Coupe>LX>Sport. I would like to know if my observations are correct or not. Quote Selected
Marti Report Reply #31 – July 22, 2014, 09:49:20 PM My 87 Cougar XR-7 Marti arrived......Only 37 XR-7's made with Silver and Smoke paint and Blue leather interior.......thats low numbers for sure. Quote Selected
Marti Report Reply #32 – July 22, 2014, 11:04:55 PM 37 is kind of low. Really low. I bet most silver cars got a gray interior. Quote Selected
Marti Report Reply #33 – November 10, 2016, 07:13:58 PM I finally got around to ordering a Marti Report for my car. I already knew most of what the report would show such as the selling dealer, build date, order type, DSO etc., but there were two figures that the report should show that I didn’t know before. How many of ‘85 Cougars were built in Medium Canyon Red Metallic and how many ’85 XR-7’s were built with a manual transmission.So while the report did give me these two figures, it also states says that number of XR-7’s built for 1985 was 8,103. This number conflicts with the 7,860 figure that was in both the Mercury Cougar 20th Anniversary Cougar book by Gary Witzenburg (published in 1987), and the Illustrated Mercury Buyer’s Guide by Peter C. Sessler (1993). I’m guessing that Sessler pulled his number from the earlier published book and that is why the 7,860 figure is the same in both books. It’s not too far off from the Marti number, but it makes me wonder where that number came from originally assuming the Marti number is accurate one. So these are the percentage numbers that I am extrapolating from it based on a total 1985 Cougar (all trim levels) of 117,274 that has been previously reported.Total 1985 Cougar production - 117,274XR-7 production – 8,103 - 6.9%7,939 total Cougar’s with Medium Canyon Red Metallic paint – 6.7%1,246 XR-7’s with Medium Canyon Red Metallic paint – 15.3%2,614 XR-7’s with manual transmission – 32.2% Quote Selected
Marti Report Reply #34 – November 10, 2016, 10:44:56 PM Well congrats on the purchase. It's great to see these available for our cars at long last and after all you've been through with the car, you deserve it.As for the production numbers...I've talked to a LOT of people with Mustangs and they've expressed concern over some details of their reports. The Marti report is not the be-all, end-all. It's a good guesstimate for some things. But it's not always 100% accurate. Personally I'll take published Ford numbers first but that's just me. Did you happen to get the Ford 999 report for your car also? Quote Selected
Marti Report Reply #35 – November 11, 2016, 09:15:43 AM Might do this for the red car anyway. Would like to know how many of them were fully loaded with the....FIVE options lol Quote Selected
Marti Report Reply #36 – November 11, 2016, 05:45:53 PM Quote from: EricCoolCats;457802Well congrats on the purchase. It's great to see these available for our cars at long last and after all you've been through with the car, you deserve it.As for the production numbers...I've talked to a LOT of people with Mustangs and they've expressed concern over some details of their reports. The Marti report is not the be-all, end-all. It's a good guesstimate for some things. But it's not always 100% accurate. Personally I'll take published Ford numbers first but that's just me. Did you happen to get the Ford 999 report for your car also?Thanks Eric.Yes I have the 999 report as well. It's got a spelling error "Medium Cayon Red" :hick:. And it missing a few options from the list:Electronic Climate ControlLeather Wrapped Steering WheelPower Antenna Quote Selected
Marti Report Reply #37 – November 15, 2016, 01:41:46 PM So what are your thoughts then, Brent? I know the 999 reports were often erroneous and that's generally okay, because you just compare that to what your car has, and/or the build sheet, and deduce from there. Marti goes a little more in-depth with the data mining. But the problem is, we have no other reference point for the data. All we have is his word.So whose production numbers do you trust more: Marti's, or Ford's?I mean...I would hope that Ford would know better than anyone else, how many cars they actually built. And it's possible that the Marti production numbers could include VINs that were ordered but not produced...unless there's something I'm missing here. Quote Selected
Marti Report Reply #38 – November 15, 2016, 03:37:18 PM Quote from: EricCoolCats;457907I mean...I would hope that Ford would know better than anyone else, how many cars they actually built. And it's possible that the Marti production numbers could include VINs that were ordered but not produced...unless there's something I'm missing here.I agree that by the '80s Ford should know how many they built but for my '69 Cobra until Marti started his reports, no one had a clue... Sure they had a figure but it was mix of Cobra and Fairlane.. Reason being the Cobra shared body ID/trim codes with Fairlane or Fairlane 500 if bucket seats were ordered... The body ID in VIN is different on the various models, but Ford didn't bother keeping records of those figures(and how Marti was able to separate the models)... Quote Selected
Marti Report Reply #39 – November 15, 2016, 05:11:04 PM Quote from: EricCoolCats;457907So what are your thoughts then, Brent? I know the 999 reports were often erroneous and that's generally okay, because you just compare that to what your car has, and/or the build sheet, and deduce from there. Marti goes a little more in-depth with the data mining. But the problem is, we have no other reference point for the data. All we have is his word.So whose production numbers do you trust more: Marti's, or Ford's?I mean...I would hope that Ford would know better than anyone else, how many cars they actually built. And it's possible that the Marti production numbers could include VINs that were ordered but not produced...unless there's something I'm missing here.Agreed, the 999 reports are notoriously known to have errors or inconsistencies in them, and as far as I have seen, not really considered to be 100% correct. Just a nice letter to have since it is from Ford. Based on what I have seen, whoever is tasked to generate these letters, they are just given a VIN, pull up the option codes and translate them into something that can be put in a letter and sometimes the option code gets miss-translated in the process. I get the feeling that they are tasked to someone at Ford who may not even know what a 1985 Cougar looks like. :wtf: I say that because when my sister was an engineer working at Ford and she took me on an "unauthorized" self-guided tour of the Mustang plant, I met a lot of her fellow engineers that just weren't car people in the least. It was quite an eye opener for me that I just didn't expect. Having a Marti report has always carried a lot of weight in the collector car world as far as being the most accurate info possible for what options it was originally equipped with, total production and production breakdown numbers. I have heard of a few errors that have popped up in them as well, but with a little communication he will make corrections if there are proven correct. So going forward, I would tend to believe the Marti report will be considered to be the most accurate just based on how the classic Ford community has accepted it as such. Now with that said, I am not 100% convinced that it is and there are two reasons that I have some doubts. One is the difference total production figure he states vs what has been out there and first published back in 1987 when that 7,860 figure was still pretty fresh so you would think it should have been correct.Two is that when I requested my Marti report, he asked for a photo of the door tag. To me that seemed odd because I would think that he wouldn't need a picture of it and that he would have all of the information he needed from the VIN.I obliged of course and sent him a pic of the door tag and I also sent him a copy of the original dealer invoice that I have.. In hindsight I kind of wished that I hadn't sent the copy of the invoice as it would have been a good test to see if his option list matched up. That is a good point about the possibility of unbuilt VIN's. I don't know what kind of information he has to work from, but I would also think that with his years of experience in doing these reports, that he would know what to look for. Quote Selected
Marti Report Reply #40 – November 15, 2016, 05:53:45 PM Quote from: TurboCoupe50;457916I agree that by the '80s Ford should know how many they built but for my '69 Cobra until Marti started his reports, no one had a clue... Sure they had a figure but it was mix of Cobra and Fairlane.. Reason being the Cobra shared body ID/trim codes with Fairlane or Fairlane 500 if bucket seats were ordered... The body ID in VIN is different on the various models, but Ford didn't bother keeping records of those figures(and how Marti was able to separate the models)...I am really curious to know what he has to work with to generate his reports. Several years ago a friend of mine who is a Mopar guy personally knew a the guy that worked on the assembly line where they built the Dodge Daytona in the 1990's and it was his job to print out the build sheets that went with the car down the line. He knew the importance of them to the car collector so he said that whenever he saw a "special" model coming down the line, he would print several copies for that car and put them in various places. This same Mopar Friend had bought a 1993 Daytona IROC R/T in bright red with red leather interior and that same guy the worked the assemble line generated a report at the end of the year of all the 1993 Daytona's produced with the color and option breakdowns and gave it to him. I have a copy of it somewhere, but instead of showing a specific number a cars built with a certain option, it lists everything in percentages so you have to decipher what you are looking for by doing the math. I wonder if it's a report like this that Marti works from. Quote Selected
Marti Report Reply #41 – November 15, 2016, 06:08:07 PM Brent, I'll pm some info to you. Quote Selected
Marti Report Reply #42 – November 15, 2016, 08:16:23 PM I'd have liked to have done a Marti report on my first T-Bird, the light sage green 1985 v6. I am fairly certain the car was a rare colour combo - light sage green with dark grey interior. I remember seeing something before that led me to believe mine may have been the only one built like that (light sage green was not common, and the few cars painted like that usually had tan interior). Some other things that would have added to the rarity: Canadian market (2bbl carb instead of EFI) and no options except full size spare and metallic paint. I mean BASIC. The centre consolette plate was blank. AM/FM radio (no tape). No right side mirror. No cruise, no A/C, no intermittent wipers. Steel 14" wheels with the base full-face hubcaps. It did have rear window defrost but that was standard in Canadian market cars. If I ever find another four-eye Bird I'd be awfully tempted to paint it light sage green metallic and find a grey interior for it. That colour combo looked really good on that car. Quote Selected
Marti Report Reply #43 – November 15, 2016, 08:37:15 PM Quote from: BCA;457931I am really curious to know what he has to work with to generate his reports.. What Marti uses is the info in the second long string of codes on deluxe report... That data corresponds to info on the vehicle build sheet... All that info has to be inputted into a searchable system...I dunno how he determines numbers built, but I'd think a cancelled order would be highlighted so it would not be included into his database...As far as cancelled/void there are a couple people with Mavericks that have two VIN numbers stamped into chassis... One number has a large V at each end to indicate a voided number, other one matches windshield VIN tag and title... Now the question is was it a mis-stamp, cancelled order or just what??? One of the guys said he was going to try for a second Marti report on the voided VIN but as yet has not done so... Quote Selected
Marti Report Reply #44 – January 12, 2017, 07:37:43 PM Marti's numbers are Ford's numbers. Marti Auto gets their data directly from Ford's production database. Or as TurboCoupe50 pointed out above, the vehicle order image (VOI).Sometimes there seems to be a little confusion as to what the production stats box on a deluxe report is telling you. The simplest way to understand it is that the stats on a deluxe report are by body code in the VIN. If all models in any particular year had the same body code, e.g. all 1985 Cougars had body code "92" in the VIN, then the first four stats are for all models that year, not a specific model. For example, the 1246 paint/trim stat on BCA's report on page 4 of this thread is for all 1985 Cougars. That stat is not just for XR-7s.There are only two ways you could surmise that the stats on a deluxe report would be for a specific model: 1) that particular model had a unique body code in the VIN, e.g. 1987 Cougars XR-7 was "62"; OR 2) the item(s) that the stat is referring to was/were unique to one model, e.g. 1985 Cougar XR-7 was only model to have engine/trans code combination "W/2".By the way, if you believe there is an error on your report contact Marti Auto and discuss it with them. They will redo your report no charge to you if it is wrong. Quote Selected
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