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Strange steering characteristics

Hi,

My bird seems to need a firm hand when it comes to steering.  I've noticed that once in a while, I'll hit a bump or pothole and it will steer in a random direction. The issue is way more pr0nounced when braking to a stop -- I can take my hands off the wheel while braking and watch the wheel turn one way (after a bump and the then other ).  If I don't keep my hands on the wheel, I would end up in on-coming traffic or off the road (two lane road).  Full disclosure,  it was doing this before I swapped the rack out with the TC rack and spindles AND I bought the front tires from the salvage yard.  They are 225/55/16 if that makes any difference -- they are balanced.  I've also had the front end professionally aligned. 

Is that just the way these cars are?
'88 Bird 5.0, TW 170s, HO cam, Scorpion rockers, Explorer intake 70mm TB/EGR, MAF conversion, 24# injectors, 8.8 3.73 disc rear end swap, console swap, leather seats, 11" front discs, 15-1 rack, TC springs all around, x-pipe, BBK headers,  welded sub-frame, unlocked digital speedo.

Strange steering characteristics

Reply #1 –
My 86 cougar was doing something similar.  It would steer almost normally, but would take continuous driving to keep it in even a remotely straight line.  Ended up being tied up ball joints and tie rod ends(non greaseable) and after I did that, it drives so easy like it should!  Do you know if whoever did the alignment checked or greased all of those?  I could still turn the wheels with some resistance while it was jacked up.

88 t-bird tc - 14.97 @ 90  IHI 18 psi + k+n filter...so far - NOW HX-35 @25psi - 12.75@112    348rwhp/395rwtq
78 F-150 - 11.61@120 on 175shot N20 - 12.55@110 on motor - 5200# race weight:hick:

Strange steering characteristics

Reply #2 –
Quote from: fordguy545;430876
My 86 cougar was doing something similar.  It would steer almost normally, but would take continuous driving to keep it in even a remotely straight line.  Ended up being tied up ball joints and tie rod ends(non greaseable) and after I did that, it drives so easy like it should!  Do you know if whoever did the alignment checked or greased all of those?  I could still turn the wheels with some resistance while it was jacked up.


Not sure what you mean.  if they are non-greaseable how did you fix them?  What do you mean tied up?  too tight?
'88 Bird 5.0, TW 170s, HO cam, Scorpion rockers, Explorer intake 70mm TB/EGR, MAF conversion, 24# injectors, 8.8 3.73 disc rear end swap, console swap, leather seats, 11" front discs, 15-1 rack, TC springs all around, x-pipe, BBK headers,  welded sub-frame, unlocked digital speedo.

Strange steering characteristics

Reply #3 –
They were rusted solid.  Tied up.  I had to replace it all.  Ball joints and tie rod ends are a pretty common replacement.  I would have greased them when I first got the car, but they didn't have grease zerks on them.  Otherwise known as lifetime greased(lifetime of the part) and then it needs replaced.

88 t-bird tc - 14.97 @ 90  IHI 18 psi + k+n filter...so far - NOW HX-35 @25psi - 12.75@112    348rwhp/395rwtq
78 F-150 - 11.61@120 on 175shot N20 - 12.55@110 on motor - 5200# race weight:hick:

Strange steering characteristics

Reply #4 –
If you can take the car back and see if the alignment has moved as this is usually free if within a few months.  If it is out of whack then start looking for warn parts as mentioned above.

Darren

83 351W TKO'd T-Bird on the bottle


93 331 Mustang Coupe - 368 rwhp

Strange steering characteristics

Reply #5 –
Quote from: fordguy545;430918
They were rusted solid.  Tied up.  I had to replace it all.  Ball joints and tie rod ends are a pretty common replacement.  I would have greased them when I first got the car, but they didn't have grease zerks on them.  Otherwise known as lifetime greased(lifetime of the part) and then it needs replaced.

Thanks.  Mine do have zerks and they're not frozen or rusted because I had them apart when I put the TC spindles and rack on.  I took your advice an squirted them full of grease.  I'll drive for a while and see how it goes.  It's still seems to make weird turns when I'm braking to a stop.
'88 Bird 5.0, TW 170s, HO cam, Scorpion rockers, Explorer intake 70mm TB/EGR, MAF conversion, 24# injectors, 8.8 3.73 disc rear end swap, console swap, leather seats, 11" front discs, 15-1 rack, TC springs all around, x-pipe, BBK headers,  welded sub-frame, unlocked digital speedo.

Strange steering characteristics

Reply #6 –
My struts are blown on my cougar. it tracks straight as an arrow even though you can dribble the front of the car like a basketball. kinda funny looking at night on the freeway.
Quote from: jcassity
I honestly dont think you could exceed the cost of a new car buy installing new *stock* parts everywhere in your coug our tbird. Its just plain impossible. You could revamp the entire drivetrain/engine/suspenstion and still come out ahead.
Hooligans! 
1988 Crown Vic wagon. 120K California car. Wifes grocery getter. (junked)
1987 Ford Thunderbird LX. 5.0. s.o., sn-95 t-5 and an f-150 clutch. Driven daily and going strong.
1986 cougar.
lilsammywasapunkrocker@yahoo.com

Strange steering characteristics

Reply #7 –
Quote from: marianadeeps;431072
  It's still seems to make weird turns when I'm braking to a stop.
Are the caliper(s) sticking? Did you use a bump steer kit with the front end up-date?

EDIT: The quick ratio rack should have the matching PS pump.....this MAY be a problem.
84 COUGAR/90 HO, 1.7RRs, performer RPM,700DP, equal length shorties, stainless EXH ,T-5,Hurst pro-billet, KC clutch, 8.8/ 4.10s, line-lok, bla ,bla, bla.
71 COMET/289,351w heads, 12.5 TRWs, 750DP, Liberty TL, 9"/6.00s, 11.9x @112 , bla,bla,bla.

Never shoot your mouth off, unless your brain is loaded! ....I may get older, but I'll never grow up!....If you're not laughing, you're not living!  :laughing:

Strange steering characteristics

Reply #8 –
Quote from: QUICKSHIFT;431094
Are the caliper(s) sticking? Did you use a bump steer kit with the front end up-date?

EDIT: The quick ratio rack should have the matching PS pump.....this MAY be a problem.


That's an interesting statement.  The calipers seem to be fine -- I can run the wheels jacked up and they coast perfectly.  I don't know what a bump steer kit is so the answer to that is no.    To be totally honest, I didn't notice any difference between my original LX rack and the TC rack I put on.    Maybe the 88 LX had the 15 - 1 rack to begin with and I just wasted my time.  The steering was doing the same thing prior to me changing the rack, spindles and brakes -- I thought that if I changed all that, it would go away, but it didn't.    Could my front tires be causing it?
'88 Bird 5.0, TW 170s, HO cam, Scorpion rockers, Explorer intake 70mm TB/EGR, MAF conversion, 24# injectors, 8.8 3.73 disc rear end swap, console swap, leather seats, 11" front discs, 15-1 rack, TC springs all around, x-pipe, BBK headers,  welded sub-frame, unlocked digital speedo.

Strange steering characteristics

Reply #9 –
I was thinking maybe brakes, could try bleeding the front brakes and make sure both sides are working OK.
Mike

Strange steering characteristics

Reply #10 –
If you have an digital thermometer, drive a round then check brake temps. a stuck caliper will be much hotter.
Quote from: jcassity
I honestly dont think you could exceed the cost of a new car buy installing new *stock* parts everywhere in your coug our tbird. Its just plain impossible. You could revamp the entire drivetrain/engine/suspenstion and still come out ahead.
Hooligans! 
1988 Crown Vic wagon. 120K California car. Wifes grocery getter. (junked)
1987 Ford Thunderbird LX. 5.0. s.o., sn-95 t-5 and an f-150 clutch. Driven daily and going strong.
1986 cougar.
lilsammywasapunkrocker@yahoo.com

Strange steering characteristics

Reply #11 –
Similar issue with my bird.  Slight sawing going on.  Just tore the front end apart and when I pulled the spring it came out in two pieces. The inner tie rod had movement back and forth where it connected to the rack.  It was something you wouldn't have noticed just by looking at it.  Had to take it off to see that it had broken.
84 TurboCoupe with 302 .010 over - 9.8 : 1 Forged Pistons - Edlebrock Goodies:  Aluminum Heads #6037, Intake #3821, 65mm TBI/EGR #3824/3827, Camshaft #3722 -  Interactive System & Technologies Mass Air with 24# Injectors - A9L - 3g Alternator - BBK shorties, Cat Converter H-pipe, Magniflow lers - World Class T5 1352-169 (1986, V8, WC, 3.15 3.35 1.93 1.29 1.00 0.68) OEM Clutch Cable - 7.5 Trac Lock with 3.08 and slapper bars from 82 Mustang.

Strange steering characteristics

Reply #12 –
From Maximum's website:

[COLOR="#0000FF"]Bumpsteer kits are used to adjust and correct the bumpsteer on your Mustang.

What is "bumpsteer"?

    Changes in the steering angle of the tires caused solely by vertical motion of the suspension.
    Excessive bumpsteer makes the car feel unstable and unpredictable because it will abruptly change direction without any input from the driver.
    Bumpsteer can be caused by anything that causes the suspension to move vertically; bumps in the road, body roll, brake dive, etc.

Which style: Bolt-through spindle or Tapered stud?

    Bolt-through style is for MM K-members that require a larger range of adjustment.
    Tapered-stud style is for stock and other k-members that require only a moderate range of adjustment.[/COLOR]

Actual link to the taper style kit which would most likely be all you would need with a near suspension stock car:

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/Bumpsteer-kit-1979-93-Mustang-tapered-stud-style-P449.aspx

Pretty good explanation of bumpsteer:

http://www.panteraplace.com/page135.htm

Now, back to your front tires.  This was discussed heavily on a couple of forums where guys were having all kinds of issues with the front end of the car wanting to follow the ruts in a paved road.  This was driving the owner nuts and it turned out the particular tire was the issue.  Borrowed some known good tires of the same dimensions and problem solved.  This may or may not be your problem but one way to eliminate it is to swap some known good tires from another car onto the front.  I would not use the rear tires especially if they are the same brand and size.  Being that the ones you have are from a salvage yard you do not know their history.  I would have them spun back up and checked for separated belts.  You can see this very easily on the balance machine.

Bump steer is only magnified under braking which makes sense as braking upsets the front end geometry but not to the point that we notice when everything else is in spec.  If something is out of whack and you add another out of whack component they can double up on the effect produced.

If it were me I would swap the front tires out with some known good ones (preferably ones already on rims that will fit) and try that.  If the problem persists then it could be bump steer but the question then becomes what is causing it.  If all the front end components are in good working order (lower control arm bushings, ball joints, sway bar bushings & end links, struts, strut mounts or CC plates, brakes, and alignment) then my guess is bump steer.

When you replaced the rack was it a new or remanufactured unit or salvage yard?  The reason I ask is the inner tie rods may be shot if its a used unit.  One other thing to look at is the soft brake lines between the calipers and the hard lines on the car.  These will break down and they will swell shut and restrict flow.  Not saying this is the issue but something to look at.

Darren

83 351W TKO'd T-Bird on the bottle


93 331 Mustang Coupe - 368 rwhp

Strange steering characteristics

Reply #13 –
Not sure id call tc springs a modified suspension. I don't understand why all stock parts would require a bump steer kit. I seriously doubt that's what is causing issues.

After buying a couple junk used tires, never again.
Quote from: jcassity
I honestly dont think you could exceed the cost of a new car buy installing new *stock* parts everywhere in your coug our tbird. Its just plain impossible. You could revamp the entire drivetrain/engine/suspenstion and still come out ahead.
Hooligans! 
1988 Crown Vic wagon. 120K California car. Wifes grocery getter. (junked)
1987 Ford Thunderbird LX. 5.0. s.o., sn-95 t-5 and an f-150 clutch. Driven daily and going strong.
1986 cougar.
lilsammywasapunkrocker@yahoo.com

Strange steering characteristics

Reply #14 –
Thanks guys.  Aerocoupe,  thanks for taking the time to write all that up.  I'm leaning towards the tires as well. It's interesting that the tires I have on the back now were a set (from the salvage yard) (one way high speed) and when I put those in front, it was really bad.  I then moved those to the rear and put the other two (which are different brands from each other and from the back tires), it was better but not great.  I don't have any more to try on these TC 16" rims but I do have the stock tires and 14" rims.  I could try those in front.
'88 Bird 5.0, TW 170s, HO cam, Scorpion rockers, Explorer intake 70mm TB/EGR, MAF conversion, 24# injectors, 8.8 3.73 disc rear end swap, console swap, leather seats, 11" front discs, 15-1 rack, TC springs all around, x-pipe, BBK headers,  welded sub-frame, unlocked digital speedo.