5.8 swap need answers!!! Please!!!

Topic: 5.8 swap need answers!!! Please!!! (Read 2876 times) previous topic - next topic

5.8 swap need answers!!! Please!!!

March 18, 2014, 06:59:41 AM

Ok so I know it's been a while buts warm weather is coming and it's time to get the cat running again!! My questions are
A. I have two 94 f150s both are parts trucks. Ones a 5.8 and ones a 5.0. Will either engine swap?
B. I know I'll need a fox pan. But if I go with the 5.8 will the manifolds work? Will stock 5.0 headers work?
C. Will the computer swap from the trucks into the cougar?
D. And finally if the tail shaft of the auto Trans is changed will it fit as a replacement to the stock and blown AOD?
Any info would be very helpful guys. I can also get a Lincoln mark computer if need be. I want. To make this happen!! I need to put it on the road!! Lol again Ty for any info!

5.8 swap need answers!!! Please!!!

Reply #1 – March 18, 2014, 09:53:13 AM

Either block will work. The 351 has a taller deck height and wider valley. You will not be able to use the intake manifold off of either truck due to height restrictions as the truck manifolds are rather large. The passenger car style 5.0 lower intake will not bolt up to a 351 block due to the width difference. If you go with the 351, you will need 351 swap headers due to clearance issues whether you go short or long tube. Computers......the '94 F150 came equipped with Mass Air. I don't think the 5.8 did from that year. The truck style speed density setups were batch/bank fire and not SEFI so I would not use the 5.8 ECU. I'm guessing the 5.0 truck has an E4OD transmission or a 4r70. The E4OD is big. The 4r70 has ECU input.... This won't be a direct drop in of sorts by any means....

There's quite a few threads on this forum you should read up on. Here's a few.

http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?7931-E4OD-Will-it-Fit&highlight=truck+cam
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?30183-302-engine-block-comparison-pictures&highlight=f-series+camshaft
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?1834-Are-car-and-truck-blocks-differn-t&highlight=f-series+camshaft

http://www.fiveohinfo.com/performance/302-351w-swap.html

Also some camshaft differences over the years....

5.8 swap need answers!!! Please!!!

Reply #2 – March 18, 2014, 03:10:05 PM

Use the 5.0 truck lower, make sure it matches up to the holley sytemax intake. you'll need your stock 5.0 cougar rails, the truck should have 19# injectors on them. stock h.o. cam and headers.

Haven't verified this, but stock exhaust manifold should be the same between cougar, and trucks.

5.8 swap need answers!!! Please!!!

Reply #3 – April 09, 2014, 07:56:28 PM

Installing a fuel injected 5.8 in a fox car is a bit of work.
P.M. for the details.

Travis

5.8 swap need answers!!! Please!!!

Reply #4 – April 09, 2014, 08:10:47 PM

.....this might help.

http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,39.0/topicseen.html

5.8 swap need answers!!! Please!!!

Reply #5 – April 09, 2014, 10:18:45 PM

Manifolds are different in trucks. Either way, you'll need to have your H or X pipe modded, as the width is greater on the 351w.

Myself, I'd use the 5.0 from the truck. Open it up, put an HO cam, some headers, 5.0 HO eec from a Stang, and you're good to go.

To use a 351w, you may as well plan to just start from the pan and go with new parts all the way through, as pretty much everything you'll need to make it work with EFI in your car will need to be bought. (because the stuff you need most will not swap from a 5.0)

As for a transmission, I'd either go with a C4, or an upgraded AOD. You CAN use the E4OD or 4R70, but you WILL need a standalone trans controller. Myself, if you want a 5 speed, I'd simply build up a T5, or go apeshiznit and put a T56 behind it.

See what I mean about how cheap it is?

And that's not even getting into the heads and induction. If you want EFI, you can cut up an HO upper and weld it to a cut off truck intake, thereby making a custom job of it. A guy here did it a couple years or so ago...I think it was Sick88Tbird. He sold his stuff and went with something else...if I would've had the money at the time, I would have bought it all.

You want to build something that will make a good bit of power and leave room to grow, start gathering everything you want for the 5.8 swap. If you want it simple with parts you can find from any Mustang guy, go with the 5.0, and keep in mind that around the 500 horse mark, it's a ticking time bomb.

Despite knowing the costs and headaches of such an animal, I have a roller 351w sitting in my shop right now. As soon as my Mustang is 5.0 swapped, I'll be starting on the 5.8 for an eventual Fox swap. Whether it will go in my '84 notch, or an '87-8 Thunderbird, I can't say.

I'm looking for a good solid Tbird roller body to swap all my stuff into...if I can find a nice enough car, I'll get the (Ford) efi stuff and go that route. I'd rather not deal with a carb setup.

5.8 swap need answers!!! Please!!!

Reply #6 – April 10, 2014, 01:53:12 AM

Ooh! You have changed directions! I have not done this, so I can only share my thoughts. 5.0 lower intake will not work. Could a 5.0 upper mate to a 5.8 lower with little to no modification? 5.8 upper from a truck will be way to tall! On the exhaust side, I would want to know if the manifolds/headers are interchangeable between 5.0 and 5.8. You should be able to find 5.8 shorty headers if not. Regardless, the exhaust past the headers/manifolds will have to be 100% custom. You should be able to find an exhaust shop to custom build this. Whether any of the manifolds/headers will fit the car it's self, I don't know. 5.8 PCM should be plug and play. I kind of wonder if those that custom tune the HO PCM would not be able to do the same thing with a 5.8 PCM. The only difference between the 5.0 HO and 5.8 is displacement. I hate to direct any Bird/Cat owner away from this site, however, I would seek some advice from some Mustang sites for this kind of swap. You may want to visit with Vinnietbird a little bit. He has recently contemplated this sort of thing. He tends to educate himself a lot before trying anything. Good luck! If I had a couple of 5.8 laying around, my truck and my bird would both be getting them.

5.8 swap need answers!!! Please!!!

Reply #7 – April 10, 2014, 03:13:21 AM

Could a 5.0 upper mate to a 5.8 lower with little to no modification? 5.8 upper from a truck will be way to tall!
Short answer; no. It can be cut, and welded, but unless you can do it yourself, it might be cheaper to just buy a used efi 5.8 intake for a Mustang

On the exhaust side, I would want to know if the manifolds/headers are interchangeable between 5.0 and 5.8.
They're not. Fox swap headers will be required, and even some of those still hit the steering shaft.

Regardless, the exhaust past the headers/manifolds will have to be 100% custom.
Just the H or X pipe. Cut the ends, a little modding to "spread them out", and done. The rest of a Mustang cat back kit can work, though it will still need lengthened to work with the extra wheelbase of a Bird.

5.8 PCM should be plug and play.
Only if it's from a '95 Cobra R Mustang (only 351w efi Mustang ever factory made). Good luck getting one of them lol. The truck EEC controls the injectors by what is known as batch fire, where the injectors on one side all pulse together, rather than sequentially per cylinder as does on the 5.0 HO engines. Also, there's several other differences in the EEC/PCM of the trucks making them very unfeasible for use.

I kind of wonder if those that custom tune the HO PCM would not be able to do the same thing with a 5.8 PCM. You may want to visit with Vinnietbird a little bit. He has recently contemplated this sort of thing. He tends to educate himself a lot before trying anything. Good luck! If I had a couple of 5.8 laying around, my truck and my bird would both be getting them.
To be frank, all of the information to do this has been around for 10-15 years. And If I was someone looking for info, I'd ask those who HAVE done the swap, or have been around people, and helped lend a hand to them doing this swap. It's not hard, it's just a little more expensive. Also, if you're going to custom map an EEC, it would probably be better to simply go with an aftermarket engine management, such as MegaSquirt or others.
You CAN use an HO mass air eec, but you'll have to have a properly calibrated mass air meter, and a tune burned to a chip installed into the eec, most likely.

Read a couple of those links posted earlier, they'll bore you to death with the fine points.
Like I said, it's a little work, not rocket science. Gather all your parts, write down what needs to be done and cross things off as they're accomplished.

One last thing, don't forget the 5.8 engines had a 28 ounce imbalance, the HO engines were 50 ounce. Means you can NOT use your HO harmonic, flywheel etc.
You can use your 5.0 fuel rails, but they'll need to be lengthened a bit, as the 351w is wider. It's just little piddly shiznit that will bug you to death if you don't find them out before hand.

5.8 swap need answers!!! Please!!!

Reply #8 – April 10, 2014, 02:33:17 PM

Thanks Thunderbirdsport302. That cleared up my thoughts, and I am sure that was a big help to the OP. Sounds like the truck PCM would work...just not very well. I might just hafta change my truck's PCM. More power and gas mileage could be obtained if it were not batch fire. I will be looking up those aftermarket PCMs.

5.8 swap need answers!!! Please!!!

Reply #9 – April 10, 2014, 04:58:05 PM

I had all these thoughts. I went with 5.8 and carb with a 5 speed to get it rolling now i'm gathering stuff to make it efi with mega squirt.