Can 4 lug axles be drilled for 5 lug?

Topic: Can 4 lug axles be drilled for 5 lug? (Read 11628 times) previous topic - next topic

Can 4 lug axles be drilled for 5 lug?

Reply #45 – February 22, 2013, 12:31:35 PM

I actually read that Racer but spacers are a no no with me. Just something i am not conferrable with. Just saying!!

Can 4 lug axles be drilled for 5 lug?

Reply #46 – February 22, 2013, 03:00:29 PM

I have read that the SN95 axle is too large for the Mazda MPV rotor to fully seat on the axle . A person ends up having to remove in the neighborhood of a 1/4" to be taken off the OD of the axle . I have not down this so I do not know this for sure but I would think it would be easy to check out. If anyone has a SN95 axle they could run it down to a parts store and check to see if this is internet mythology or the real deal. If the has to be machined then that is an additional cost to the project but it is only a one time deal. If it does not have to be machined then you only need the spacer which can be found here:

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=49_134_231&products_id=576

Here is one instance of the compatibility issue I am talking about:

http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/turbo-coupe-rear-end-questions.840262/

Darren

Can 4 lug axles be drilled for 5 lug?

Reply #47 – February 24, 2013, 10:41:19 AM

here is a pic off a thread here where it was done in 2009 posted in the drive train section
remove axle (haha- this is where it now makes sense to add a 5 lug axle but.........)
pop out studs
lay new rim on the axle
insert alignment tool to catch the hole that lines up
scribe in the new hole locations
X out the new scribed holes
drill out the holes
install studs
install axle
done
**all things geometrically considered and thinking it through, i dont really have an issue with drilling the axle.
I personally would also consider that the lug nuts are actually "aligning the wheel centerline with the studs" , the position of the circle tranfered to the axle on the X and Y axis isnt really manageble without good planning. with your alignment tool catching the hole that does line up, you would need to insert something like a manderal bit that completely filled up the rim hole and finally using that tool to by hand transfer the circle shape onto the axle surface. Once done, i cant see this being a big enough issue.
the lug nuts will center you up even further as you tighten them.

if your holes you transfer are achieved with thought and measured calculations, and you dont plan to qtr mile the car, i really cant see the issue.
Everything rotating on a vechicle is not 100% even from the factory so thats why we find misc holes , metal taken away or metal chunks added to rotating parts to "balance" the less than perfect tolerances.

the crank shaft is the same, has blance holes or divits drilled out, drive shaft has unique metal chuncs welded for incorrect non perfect engineering, the rim itself has the same concept with a tire on in that weights are added.

In this conversation, its odd no one has said that even from the factory or sales dealership, things are not dead nuts on because if you tell the sales guy to remove those stupid weights from the tires, he would say you are voiding the warranty of the car. What is being said here is that everything needs fine tuning, so if you add your holes with thought and a measured approach, the remaining should not be a worth while measureable mechanical issue. I would think that if you transfered your circle shape in a calibrated manner, we are only talking about .00XX inches if not less of delta.

Can 4 lug axles be drilled for 5 lug?

Reply #48 – February 24, 2013, 11:54:35 AM

If i were to do this, i already have determined the only tool that would be a time saver is a larger scale of what is shown below.
A tappered end alignment rod that is hollow with a spring loaded center punch that you hit to mark a dot on the working surface being modified.

granted the below is for another application, i do not know what larger diameter hollow alignment tools are available but i would find it and use it for this task to shorten the mod time and reduce room for error.

Can 4 lug axles be drilled for 5 lug?

Reply #49 – February 24, 2013, 01:00:58 PM

nevermind..see next post.

Can 4 lug axles be drilled for 5 lug?

Reply #50 – February 24, 2013, 01:27:11 PM

I just measured 2 axles for hub dia. Axle #1 was the original axle in my TC rear, hub dia was 2.534", axle #2 was from a Ranger, unsure what year, but it's 5 lug, and meant for an eventual swap on one of the Mustangs. Anyway, it's hub dia is 2.540".

So my previous post is incorrect, the 4 lug axle WILL be hubcentric after conversion to 5 lug, using stock Ford wheels. I physically verified this by knocking the lug studs out of the Ranger axle and putting it into a TC wheel. Fits like it was meant to, and there's no noticeable play.

My theory stands: provided one was exceedingly precise in centering the lug stud holes, I feel it will be safe if welded properly. Also, I don't think there is a way to use an existing lug hole (4 lug hole, that is) because of the spread of the 5 lug pattern is is little further out. I will get pics of this in a few minutes.

Can 4 lug axles be drilled for 5 lug?

Reply #51 – February 24, 2013, 05:29:34 PM

Ok so you are going to use WHAT as a precise measuring device to drill the holes accurately. A rim..

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!! No DICE

Can 4 lug axles be drilled for 5 lug?

Reply #52 – February 24, 2013, 11:18:18 PM

I don't know..I'm not a machinist.

But I do know guys that make brackets from a piece of steel stock. Those brackets are used to hold molds for blow-molding machines in perfect alignment. The machines have a clamp force of several thousand psi. They cycle thousands and thousands of times, sometimes for 3-4 days without ever stopping.

I reckon for a couple of the guys, (one of which has a phD in mechanical engineering) finding the centers of 5 small holes on an axle shaft is pretty mundane compared to what they do to put food in the fridge.

I'd imagine that once the holes were filled, drilled and the lugs were in there securely, that a balance test be done. I would thing a driveshaft shop could do that.

Hell, for that matter, the lug holes are drilled out when the axle is made, no?

Can 4 lug axles be drilled for 5 lug?

Reply #53 – February 25, 2013, 12:22:09 AM

Quote from: TOM Renzo;409947

Ok so you are going to use WHAT as a precise measuring device to drill the holes accurately. A rim..

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!! No DICE

you know thats not what was said. dun pokin?:D

Can 4 lug axles be drilled for 5 lug?

Reply #54 – February 25, 2013, 12:33:35 AM

Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;409928

I don't think there is a way to use an existing lug hole (4 lug hole, that is) because of the spread of the 5 lug pattern is is little further out. I will get pics of this in a few minutes.

check it, you should see that one stud ties in and brings the center hub in play as well , i gotta dig up that 2009 thread showing the diy part of it.
The guy also mentioned that leaving the one stud that does line up in place helps because you can add the lug nut and snug it down so it further aligns things,, lug nut being tappered and all.

arrggg, what am i thinking........ Tom said there is no way on planet earth or in any universe this mod can be done because there is no known technology or people with brains enough to do it.... gezz ,,, ill roll over and die now.:shakeass:

Can 4 lug axles be drilled for 5 lug?

Reply #55 – February 25, 2013, 06:12:03 AM

Jay the 4 bolt pattern is wider and does not line up with the 5 bolt pattern. None of the 4 lug holes line up to any lug holes if memory serves me for a stock ford 5 lug pattern. I think it lines up for a chevy pattern if i remember correctly not 100% on this. I have actually indexed this and found out that 4 lugs are on virgin metal on the and the fifth needs to be welded up and drilled. Either way if you feel confident do it. I do not feel confident doing it and i consider my welding skills to be quite good. Thanks

NOTE

The axle balance is not the issue here. It is centering of the wheel on the hub and have the lugs not put in to a side load bind. Example having a block with a stripped bolt hole and someone installed a coil slightly off index. This will have the tendency to have the bolt in a side load situation. With a hub on an axle it has the same effect. How critical it is is the question. You may be able to do it or maybe not. I do not feel it can be dun in ones garage without an indexing machine or a Bridgeport. Several aftermarket axles come with multiple holes from the aftermarket with dual patterns. But they are designed that way and machined accordingly. So if you could use one of the existing holes for a ford bolt pattern which you cant in this case how does one index a true center points for drilling and indexing. A WHEEL A ROTOR NOT ME JUST SAYING. With that i would never do it but i am not bashing anyone else for doing it. By the way it has been said that the 4 lug setup is totally adequate for high HP applications. Adding the 5 lugs is better no question. But it is mostly for wheel availability. With that carry on Boys. Thanks

I have tried this before and you will find out that when you try to drill out he area that has been welded that the drill bit or end mill for that matter will walk and the patter you desire will not be achieved.

Can 4 lug axles be drilled for 5 lug?

Reply #56 – February 25, 2013, 06:39:24 AM

Tom said there is no way on planet earth or in any universe this mod can be done because there is no known technology or people with brains enough to do it.... gezz ,,, ill roll over and die now.

Where did i say that ???? I said i would not do it because it involves welding which warps and distorts as well as a balance issue. I have drilled many a for different lug patterns. But none that involved a spark machine to accomplish it. Especially an axle. Once again i am not telling anyone not to do it i was clear on that point. I said i would not do it. Thanks

By the way if someone wants to do it it is better to weld in the original stud than trying to fill the old one. Another words use the original stud as a filler and weld around it. That keeps the heat down and in my view works better and more consistent than trying to fill the hole then drilling it accurately Just saying!!

Naturally you have to grind the back and front of the original lug completely square and flat with the .

Can 4 lug axles be drilled for 5 lug?

Reply #57 – February 25, 2013, 08:59:59 AM

i was just playin around with ya,, i thought you were talking to me on post 52.

Can 4 lug axles be drilled for 5 lug?

Reply #58 – February 25, 2013, 07:46:06 PM

All this just to avoid finding a set of SN95 axles out of a Mustang which can be had on several Mustang sites for $50 - $100 for the set. I could see doing it if nothing economical were available but not when there are so many sets of these in salvage yards and and the corners of garages? It can be done and most competent machinist can do it but what they would charge to do it right is not worth it when axles are so cheap. If you are a machinist and have access to the tools then that's a different story.

Darren

Can 4 lug axles be drilled for 5 lug?

Reply #59 – February 25, 2013, 08:16:19 PM

Quote from: Aerocoupe;410029

All this just to avoid finding a set of SN95 axles out of a Mustang which can be had on several Mustang sites for $50 - $100 for the set. I could see doing it if nothing economical were available but not when there are so many sets of these in salvage yards and and the corners of garages? It can be done and most competent machinist can do it but what they would charge to do it right is not worth it when axles are so cheap. If you are a machinist and have access to the tools then that's a different story.

Darren

Could not have said it better myself!!