Fuel Pump Replacement on my Cougar

Topic: Fuel Pump Replacement on my Cougar (Read 4955 times) previous topic - next topic

Stalled on the side of the road - Updated - Now Fuel Problem Diagnosis

Reply #15 – October 21, 2012, 04:25:29 PM

I am finally getting back to this. Borrowed a fuel pressure gauge from the auto parts store. Hooked it up, turned the key on a few times, absolutely nothing. Needle does not move at all. I can still hear the fuel pump buzzing for a couple seconds when I turn the key on.

I'm assuming I did it right. There doesn't seem to be much to it. Just screw the thing onto the valve with the correct adapter.

So I just want to verify that a reading of total zero is plausible before I go ahead and drop the tank to check the pump and the condition of the hoses there.

Thanks again for the assistance!

Fuel Pump Replacement on my Cougar

Reply #16 – October 21, 2012, 07:25:00 PM

Well I think that test was mostly worthless. As a control, I decided to test the fuel pressure on our 2000 Taurus. It also registered as nil. It turns out the kit's Ford adapter is . When I open the Taurus's valve with a screwdriver, fuel sprays out. But when I put the adapter on and try to open it, nothing. So fuel never even makes it to the gauge.

I think I may still have a fuel pressure problem with the Cougar (when I open the Cougar's valve with a screwdriver, basically no gas comes out) but this fuel presure gauge didn't tell me anything. I guess that is what you get with a loaner tool, even though this one looks brand new.

Fuel Pump Replacement on my Cougar

Reply #17 – October 21, 2012, 10:58:08 PM

I was going to suggest seeing if fuel would come out the way you did it with a screw driver. Did you depress the schrader valve on the fuel line while someone was cycling the ignition key? Sometime the pressure bleeds off on the fuel line pretty quick on older cars.

If you still have no pressure and you are sure the fuel pump is cycling when the ignition key is turned on I would definitely drop the tank and see what is going on. If you drop it you may as well get a pump, sock, and the rubber hose that goes between the pump and hard line. I would suggest a new external fuel filter as well if you have not already done that. IF there is a bunch of rust of in the bottom of the tank have it cleaned as it will save you some headache down the road.

Darren

Fuel Pump Replacement on my Cougar

Reply #18 – October 22, 2012, 12:01:14 PM

Quote from: nbzimmer;400895

I am finally getting back to this. Borrowed a fuel pressure gauge from the auto parts store. Hooked it up, turned the key on a few times, absolutely nothing. Needle does not move at all. I can still hear the fuel pump buzzing for a couple seconds when I turn the key on.

I'm assuming I did it right. There doesn't seem to be much to it. Just screw the thing onto the valve with the correct adapter.

So I just want to verify that a reading of total zero is plausible before I go ahead and drop the tank to check the pump and the condition of the hoses there.

Thanks again for the assistance!

I remember running into the problem with a fuel pressure gauge that you are having. There was a schrader valve in one of the hose sections that wasn't getting opened. There was nothing to push on the valve. I can't remember if it was on the other end of the ford adapter or on the hose the adapter hooks to. I had to take the valve stem out of the schrader.
Not talking about the schrader on the fuel rail, don't take the valve stem out of that.

Fuel Pump Replacement on my Cougar

Reply #19 – October 22, 2012, 10:30:40 PM

Well I pulled the tank this afternoon. It was a little easier than I expected, even with 7-8 gallons inside. The driver's side bolt came out pretty easily. The passenger side was a little more difficult, but still not terrible. Both bolts have some rusted out threads so I hope it isn't too hard to find new bolts. The last tank I pulled was on my first car, a 1973 Mercury Montego. On that one, after the bolts were removed you could rotate the strap 90 degrees and then remove the other end. But they kind of get in the way on this car. Maybe I just don't know how to remove that other side.

Anyway, if I didn't need a new fuel pump before, I do now, as I broke off one of the metal tubes. For some reason that hose just wouldn't budge even after removing the plastic locking clip. But the metal was so weak, it wouldn't surprise me if it already had holes in it.

There is some rust and plenty of dirt on top, but the tank looks great inside. No visible sediment and no rust anywhere. No wonder the fuel filter I replaced seemed totally fine. I was losing daylight today so I just threw some duct tape over the openings and tomorrow I will clean off the outside, open it up, and try to get that gas out.

By the way, how do you change the overall subject line on this thread? It isn't really about being stalled anymore, it is about solving a fuel problem. I'd change it if I knew how.

Fuel Pump Replacement on my Cougar

Reply #20 – October 23, 2012, 05:06:38 PM

Well I realize now that what broke off was not part of the fuel pump but just the hanger. It is too bad because those things look pricey. But I think I would have had to replace the hanger anyway, as wasted as that metal is. Wonder why they cost so much? They are nearly double the cost of the pump, itself.

The tube inside the tank between the pump and the hanger is all cracked up, wouldn't surprise me if it was leaking. I suppose it is possible that the pump is fine, but I've had the car for 90k and I've never changed it, and I have my doubts that the orginal owner changed it in the 90k they owned it, either (any way to tell if it is original?).

While I have this thing down, is there any reason to change the fuel level sending unit or the carbon filter, or should I just leave well enough alone? The lock ring on the fuel level sender is all rusted up, but from what I can tell everything looks fine inside the tank, and I've never had any issues with my fuel gauge. If I don't replace it, should I re-apply the goop inside the electrical plug on the top of the tank? What is in there looks pretty dried out. Is that just dialectric grease?

Fuel Pump Replacement on my Cougar

Reply #21 – October 25, 2012, 09:59:54 PM

Give Vinnie (member here) a shout as I think he was able to source new locking rings and o-rings. If you can get one for the sending unit you might as well replace it now to ensure you will not just have to drop the tank when you really don't want to. Holler at hcor (another member here that has a nice selection of used parts) and see if he has a pickup assembly for the fuel pump as he has alot of parts for our cars. What carbon filter are you talking about? Yes, clean the connector and you can get the same grease at Ford. I have cleaned out those connectors before and used dielectric grease with no issues but it does not take much. You are just trying to seal out water and dust.

Darren

Fuel Pump Replacement on my Cougar

Reply #22 – October 28, 2012, 01:05:47 PM

Quote from: Aerocoupe;401296

Give Vinnie (member here) a shout as I think he was able to source new locking rings and o-rings. If you can get one for the sending unit you might as well replace it now to ensure you will not just have to drop the tank when you really don't want to. Holler at hcor (another member here that has a nice selection of used parts) and see if he has a pickup assembly for the fuel pump as he has alot of parts for our cars. What carbon filter are you talking about? Yes, clean the connector and you can get the same grease at Ford. I have cleaned out those connectors before and used dielectric grease with no issues but it does not take much. You are just trying to seal out water and dust.

Darren

Thanks.

I already purchased the lock ring and gasket for the fuel pump hanger online for $10 (total rip off if you ask me but that was the cheapest I could find). From the looks of the thread he has going, Vinnie's got a lot on his mind these days, so I will probably just order the fuel level sender ring from the same place. Can't hurt to replace it while I've got the tank down.

I'll probably just use some dialectric grease since I have some on hand, instead of hunting down the Ford product.

Carbon filter is probably not the right name for it. It is the line that traps the vapors, and I thought it has an actived carbon canister in there somewhere.

I think I'm more worried about the bolts for the tank straps than I am about the lock rings. Both of them have some decent wear on them. I wonder if I can just buy a couple machined bolts from the hardware store, or is there anything special about those particular bolts?

Fuel Pump Replacement on my Cougar

Reply #23 – October 28, 2012, 07:45:06 PM

Cool deal on the locking rings. I bought one from Ford and $10 is cheap compared to them so I would have been glad to pay that. Yeah the canister on the passenger side frame rail, I would just leave it alone as there is a solenoid which opens and the vapors are sucked into the motor and burned or at least that is my understanding of it. Take the tank strap bolts to Home Depot, Lowes, or ACE and get a Grade 5 or metric equivalent (cannot remember the thread pitch on those) and a flat washer for each. Just in case you wanted the exact ones they are here:

http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/item/HDW-9092A/1979-93-Mustang-Fuel-Tank-Strap-Hardware

Darren

Fuel Pump Replacement on my Cougar

Reply #24 – October 29, 2012, 04:32:49 PM

Quote from: Aerocoupe;401504

Cool deal on the locking rings. I bought one from Ford and $10 is cheap compared to them so I would have been glad to pay that. Yeah the canister on the passenger side frame rail, I would just leave it alone as there is a solenoid which opens and the vapors are sucked into the motor and burned or at least that is my understanding of it. Take the tank strap bolts to Home Depot, Lowes, or ACE and get a Grade 5 or metric equivalent (cannot remember the thread pitch on those) and a flat washer for each. Just in case you wanted the exact ones they are here:

http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/item/HDW-9092A/1979-93-Mustang-Fuel-Tank-Strap-Hardware

Darren

Thanks for the info. In case anyone is interested, this is the lock ring I got: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002D75NOG/ref=pe_175190_21431760_M3T1_ST1_dp_1.

It is kinda weird because Dorman makes two lock rings for the fuel tank, but it looks like they are both for the pump sender. I got the 579-004, but they also make a 55811 that you can get for a few bucks cheaper on Ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dorman-Help-55811-Locking-Ring-/170917576919?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27cb7b40d7&vxp=mtr.

I hunted them down on the Dorman website, and I'm still not sure if there is any difference between them: http://www.dormanproducts.com/gsearch.aspx?q=inmeta:year%3D1987+inmeta:make%3DMERCURY+inmeta:model%3DCOUGAR%253A%2520LS+inmeta:engine%3DV8%2520%252D%25205%252E0L%2520%2528302%2520CID%2529%253A%2520GAS%253A%2520FI%253A%2520N%253A%2520F+inmeta:parttype%3DFuel%2520Tank%2520Sending%2520Unit%2520Lock%2520Ring&dnavs=inmeta:year%3D1987+inmeta:make%3DMERCURY+inmeta:model%3DCOUGAR%253A%2520LS+inmeta:engine%3DV8%2520%252D%25205%252E0L%2520%2528302%2520CID%2529%253A%2520GAS%253A%2520FI%253A%2520N%253A%2520F+inmeta:parttype%3DFuel%2520Tank%2520Sending%2520Unit%2520Lock%2520Ring&type=parttype

Fuel Pump Replacement on my Cougar

Reply #25 – November 01, 2012, 04:43:48 PM

For what it is worth, Dorman tells me that the 55811 and the 579-004 are the same part. They just give it different numbers for different vendors. Wish I would have checked into that first, I could have saved myself 4 whole bucks! Ha.

Fuel Pump Replacement on my Cougar

Reply #26 – November 29, 2012, 10:15:55 AM

So I did go ahead and buy new bolts. I found the same part number that Darren recommended on this website for a couple bucks cheaper. They work fine, though the bolts are a little shorter than the originals, so you have to get the tank a little closer to final position before the threads will catch.

Anyhow, I got everything back in order and the car fired right up. There is one problem, though. I have a leak. I'm sure it is on the line out of the fuel pump sending unit, because I had a problem there when I removed the tank. That line would not come off. The metal line on the sending unit (which was almost rusted through anyway) broke off before the fuel line connector came loose. And when I did finally get the connector off, the o-ring and the plastic ring that holds it in place stayed on the metal line of the sending unit. I worked them off and put them back in the connector, but I'm not surprised if that is what's leaking.

Looks as though something like this is in order: http://www.dormanproducts.com/p-20636-800-054.aspx. According to the parts applications, this is the only style of connector that is an "exact fit." However, I don't need to replace any of the actual fuel line. Dorman also sells standalone connectors, but it looks like they might be universal applications: http://www.dormanproducts.com/p-5922-800-084.aspx. Wonder if there is any reason I couldn't use that?

Also, can anyone verify the size of the sending unit metal tubing and the size of the nylon fuel line for the connection running OUT of the pump/sender? Is it really 5/16 metal to 3/8 nylon? Thanks!

Fuel Pump Replacement on my Cougar

Reply #27 – November 29, 2012, 08:53:09 PM

I never have too much on mind to help where I can.

Fuel Pump Replacement on my Cougar

Reply #28 – December 05, 2012, 05:25:34 PM

Quote from: vinnietbird;399314

Yep, gotta drop the tank to swap the pump, THAT is why I added the panel in the trunk to access the pump. Those "bleepin'" times when you're stuck in some area where you really don't have a good place to drop it.....especially if the tank is full.

Hey Vinnie, how did you A: locate the position of the access panel, and B: how did you design the panel to give you access but keep the trunk dry? This sounds like something I may want to try in the future.

Fuel Pump Replacement on my Cougar

Reply #29 – December 05, 2012, 10:15:52 PM

I pulled the carpet, and you can see a raised area on the passenger side of the trunk floor, kind of back a little.
It's right above the fuel pump area. I drilled a hole in the floor and could see the location of the lines and all from the hole. I put tape on the bit by wrapping it a few times so the bit couldn't go too deep through the floor and into something it shouldn't. I should've lowered the tank first, but when I did it, it had 22 gallons of gas in it. I decided to move forward with operation floor hole. I got the water hose and sprayed water up on top of the tank, and then got my Dremel tool and cut a hole in the trunk. It took a little extra tpuppies to get it the right size.

Once I did that, a swapped the pump and re-assembled the pump hanger into the tank. I bought a piece of 12x12 steel at Lowe's for cheap, made a cover panel, and used 10 small screws to hold the panel in place over a rubber gasket. I also painted the bare metal surface and edges to prevent rust from starting. No water in the trunk yet, seals fine, and, I can swap pumps in minutes...literally. Less than 15 if I take my time.