can't pull KOER codes, and some strange KOEO codes

Topic: can't pull KOER codes, and some strange KOEO codes (Read 3711 times) previous topic - next topic

can't pull KOER codes, and some strange KOEO codes

March 02, 2012, 06:48:25 PM

Well my engine light has been on for a while, I figured because of no EGR but I decided to self test anyway. I got some strange ones.

KOEO I got,
31 -EGR valve position sensor failure, no surprise,
67 -Neutral safety switch curcuit failure?,
84 -EGR solenoid failure, again, no surprise,
85 -Canister purge solenoid curcuit failure, that explains some things but I have no idea why its showing up.

CM I got,
29 -VSS reading malfunction???,
31 again,
51 -ECT signal too high?,
54 -ACT signal to high?, and
96 -fuel pump secondary circuit failure?

I tried running a KOEO but it won't work. What I mean by that is when I start it up it idles normal for a second, then jumps to about 2000 real quick then back down to just below normal, and then I get a solid CEL and let it sit for a few minutes, never got anything. I did this a few times. Same thing every time. Never got an EID code either. I have no idea why its doing that to me...

Also I'm a little confused about why the heck I'm getting weird codes like 29, 51, 54, 67 and 96. Does anyone know how to clear the CM codes? I'd like to clear them and then drive it for a few days and see if they return. Also how the heck to you fix 85?

can't pull KOER codes, and some strange KOEO codes

Reply #1 – March 02, 2012, 08:12:07 PM

is your cougar a 1988 ls???

can't pull KOER codes, and some strange KOEO codes

Reply #2 – March 02, 2012, 09:09:06 PM

Why yes it is. (as you can see in my signature):)

can't pull KOER codes, and some strange KOEO codes

Reply #3 – March 02, 2012, 09:44:45 PM

To clear the CM codes, pull the jumper off when it is displaying the codes.
Run it again to confirm they cleared.

can't pull KOER codes, and some strange KOEO codes

Reply #4 – March 02, 2012, 09:55:01 PM

Quote from: sarjxxx;382766

I tried running a KOEO but it won't work. What I mean by that is when I start it up it idles normal for a second, then jumps to about 2000 real quick then back down to just below normal, and then I get a solid CEL and let it sit for a few minutes, never got anything. I did this a few times. Same thing every time. Never got an EID code either. I have no idea why its doing that to me...

Did you turn the key off and wait at least five seconds after the KOEO before starting it for the KOER?

can't pull KOER codes, and some strange KOEO codes

Reply #5 – March 02, 2012, 10:26:30 PM

Quote from: softtouch;382803

To clear the CM codes, pull the jumper off when it is displaying the codes.
Run it again to confirm they cleared.

You are meaning the STI jumper right?

Quote from: softtouch;382805

Did you turn the key off and wait at least five seconds after the KOEO before starting it for the KOER?

I waited much longer. In fact I even tried pulling the ground jumper off and running the car for a while and then trying again, even though the engine was already warmed up.

can't pull KOER codes, and some strange KOEO codes

Reply #6 – March 02, 2012, 11:44:07 PM

Yes the STI jumper.
The STI should be jumpered to "signal return" not ground.
It confirms that the signal return is good and that is important.
I know some write ups on line say to jumper to ground, but that is not by the book.

can't pull KOER codes, and some strange KOEO codes

Reply #7 – March 03, 2012, 02:21:37 AM

Ground out the lone STI connector.

Turn the key to 'run', wait for the fuel pump to run and solenoids to click, etc. Wait for the check engine light to flash its super-fast initial sequence too just for the hell of it. I say this only because I did a KOER tonight and this was my exact process.

Interrupt that blinking, go ahead and start the vehicle. Wait for the engine ID to flash. 4 flashes = V8. Don't know about a V6. Probably 3 lol. Once that is done, wait a few seconds I guess, firmly press the brake pedal and hold it for at least a second, then let off. Jerk the steering wheel to one side and bring it back. There is no power steering pressure sensor on these cars...maybe it detects the change in idle. Do it anyway, easy enough lol. Then be patient. The idle will go up and down as things are tested. You should see the codes after this.

can't pull KOER codes, and some strange KOEO codes

Reply #8 – March 03, 2012, 10:47:16 PM

ok that could be the problem... I was doing what FFI was saying and just starting it right up with it grounded out. I guess I will try jumping to SIG RTN and waitng for the KOEO to start before I turn it on. Let yall know tomorrow.

These need to do the goose test too, correct?

can't pull KOER codes, and some strange KOEO codes

Reply #9 – March 04, 2012, 12:50:40 AM

Run KOEO with STI jumpered to Signal Return.
If it doesn't work it means the signal return line is blown.
If you get codes it means the Signal Return line is good.

Were you able to reset the CM codes?

When KOEO finishes outputting codes it goes into a test mode called "Output State Check" and stays in this mode until you turn the key off.
Earlier I wanted to make sure you turned the key off to get out of this mode before you started the KOER.

You don't have to wait for the KOEO test to start before you start KOER.

If during KOER you get a single pulse (Dynamic Response pulse), this is when you do the momentary WOT (kick down test).

can't pull KOER codes, and some strange KOEO codes

Reply #10 – March 04, 2012, 04:30:45 PM

Ok so I jumpered STI to SIG RTN and got KOEO codes, same as before, and was able to clear the CM codes using the above method. Still can't get KOER codes. The car starts like normal, idles for about 3 seconds, jumps to 2000 rpm for about 2 seconds, then idles back down to normal, then about 5 seconds later I get a solid CEL and stays that way for at least 3 minutes.

Is it possible that for some bizzare reason, KOER was not integrated into the EFI 3.8 ECU's? I only ask because of other strange things, like only having one oxygen sensor on 88 3.8's.:wtf:

can't pull KOER codes, and some strange KOEO codes

Reply #11 – March 04, 2012, 05:57:43 PM

If it doesn't work it means the signal return line is blown.

If blown he would have several codes in KOEO. Any sensor that depends on SIG RTN will show up with faults.

Below is an ECM with a good SIG RTN

Bellow is an ECM with a bad SIG RTN

can't pull KOER codes, and some strange KOEO codes

Reply #12 – March 04, 2012, 06:34:52 PM

Quote from: TOM Renzo;382984

If it doesn't work it means the signal return line is blown.

If blown he would have several codes in KOEO. Any sensor that depends on SIG RTN will show up with faults.

Tom, I had him switch from grounding the STI to jumpering STI to Sig Return for pulling codes to verify the Sig Return was good.
If Sig Return is blown, jumpering STI to Sig Return will not activate the self tests.

can't pull KOER codes, and some strange KOEO codes

Reply #13 – March 04, 2012, 06:53:36 PM

Quote from: sarjxxx;382969

Ok so I jumpered STI to SIG RTN and got KOEO codes, same as before, and was able to clear the CM codes using the above method. Still can't get KOER codes. The car starts like normal, idles for about 3 seconds, jumps to 2000 rpm for about 2 seconds, then idles back down to normal, then about 5 seconds later I get a solid CEL and stays that way for at least 3 minutes.

Is it possible that for some bizzare reason, KOER was not integrated into the EFI 3.8 ECU's? I only ask because of other strange things, like only having one oxygen sensor on 88 3.8's.:wtf:

The KOER should run on your car.
I am trying to think of something external to the EEC that would cause this.
1. Check the EEC ground. You should have a small "pig-tail" wire (BK/LG) on the negative battery cable that goes to a one wire connector from the harness.

2. We need to figure out why you get the "Nuetral Safety Switch" code.
Pin 30 of the EEC has 12v when ignition switch is in start.
When the ign switch is not in start and the transmission is in park or neutral, pin 30 "sees" ground through the N/S switch and the starter relay coil.

Maybe the EEC thinks you are not in Park or Neutral when you run KOER.

Is everything stock in the transmission area?

can't pull KOER codes, and some strange KOEO codes

Reply #14 – March 04, 2012, 07:12:18 PM

Quote from: softtouch;383003

The KOER should run on your car.
I am trying to think of something external to the EEC that would cause this.
1. Check the EEC ground. You should have a small "pig-tail" wire (BK/LG) on the negative battery cable that goes to a one wire connector from the harness.

2. We need to figure out why you get the "Nuetral Safety Switch" code.
Pin 30 of the EEC has 12v when ignition switch is in start.
When the ign switch is not in start and the transmission is in park or neutral, pin 30 "sees" ground through the N/S switch and the starter relay coil.

Maybe the EEC thinks you are not in Park or Neutral when you run KOER.

Is everything stock in the transmission area?

Everything is NOT stock in the transmission area, or the starter circuit. I have not changed any wiring in the transmission connectors, but there is the fact that I swapped to a floor shifted aod from a 90 tbird. I don't think that should matter though, since the trans is definitely in park, and I did not have to modify any harnesses or wiring to hook it up.

I'm wondering however, if the the way I rewired my starter circuit has anything to do with it. I installed the PMGR starter, and in the process changed a bunch of wiring... like eliminating the stock starter solenoid, since the new one has it built onto it, and adding a standalone push button start to eliminate the need for the tiny wire from the solenoid. With it wired that way, I can engage the starter anytime I want, including key-off, and with the trans in gear. However the car will not start without the key being on. All wiring that had been attached to the original starter solenoid I moved to a mega fuse holder wired inline to the main battery cable. Safer, and more sensible than having everything bolted to the one side of the solenoid.

As for the bl/lg wire, yes it is there.