ler

Topic: ler (Read 5577 times) previous topic - next topic

Reply #15 – February 18, 2012, 06:54:47 AM

Reason turbo lers are called TURBO is because they RESTRICT EXHAUST FLOW LIKE A TURBO!!!! lers dont make HP. Any ler will loose HP. And increasing pipe diameter can loose a great amount of HP If you go to BIG. Bigger is not better in this area. A Y pipe cancels out NOISE from frequency differential and can make more HP than duals in some cases. But normally a dual conversion with a connector pipe can gain app 12 HP. Cat only exhausts make the most HP APP 20-23. This is not me it is from the dyne

ler

Reply #16 – February 18, 2012, 03:35:06 PM

I doubt running just cats is legal here in California, and it would sound like . So far it looks like i should save up for a h pipe.

ler

Reply #17 – February 18, 2012, 05:45:56 PM

Quote from: TOM Renzo;381018

Reason turbo lers are called TURBO is because they RESTRICT EXHAUST FLOW LIKE A TURBO!!!! lers dont make HP. Any ler will loose HP. And increasing pipe diameter can loose a great amount of HP If you go to BIG. Bigger is not better in this area. A Y pipe cancels out NOISE from frequency differential and can make more HP than duals in some cases. But normally a dual conversion with a connector pipe can gain app 12 HP. Cat only exhausts make the most HP APP 20-23. This is not me it is from the dyne

That's mostly what I've always heard as well. Lots of guys around here with small straight pipes. No lers. No cats. Man, sounds like !!! A few of us down town have talked, and I told them noise doesn't mean power.LOL.

I know that wasn't the topic here, just saying. But with the 3.8, I had two cats, the crossover pipe (H-Pipe), and two lers then out the back. Sounded good, and seemed mildly more peppy.

ler

Reply #18 – February 18, 2012, 05:46:32 PM

Quote from: FirstBird;381041

I doubt running just cats is legal here in California, and it would sound like . So far it looks like i should save up for a h pipe.

I couldn't find one for our cars with the 3.8. Had the ler shop make it.

ler

Reply #19 – February 18, 2012, 08:36:32 PM

Vinny it is simple thanks for your post. By the way you are 100% correct

Hot gases move faster than cold gases through a system. Once the gases cool down they get heavy and are harder to move in an exhaust system. (EXAMPLE MOST NOVICE MECHANICS SEEM TO THINK REMOVING A CAT INCREASES HP. IF IT IS NOT CLOGGED AND HAS A LOW CELL COUNT IT DECREASES HP BY ELIMINATING IT LOL) Running cat only exhausts are legal in most states probably other than CA but i dont know the law in CA. But in my state lers do not count as emission required. The cat or cats keep the gases hotter and that means they are easier to move through the pipes. As does a smaller pipe diameter. Noise does not mean HP as some think. As i was told by WILLIAM TYLER JENKENS the noise has to stay in the engine where it makes HP. So increasing heat as a cat does increases exhaust speed and that helps scavenging. Increasing the diameter to a certain extent helps but to big and velocity decrease the gases get heavy and hard to move. That is why a lot of the car companies are working on cat systems only. They are called CAT LERS. And they will be showing up very soon from the OE. We have dun extensive research on exhaust systems over the years. Other than TURBO cars you have to design a very sophisticated system to gain HP. Remember an exhaust system does not make HP as some believe. Thanks

Electronic lers are another example the engineers are working to increase exhaust flow. Every ler on this planet restricts exhaust flow. That is their job to sound differently from restriction.

PUMPING LOSSES
Whenever an engine modification increases the average area of the airflow paths into and out of an engine, there is a chance the velocity of the flow will decrease. Most of the time the factor of velocity decrease is very small compared to the area increased, so flow is generally increased. If modifications are taken too far, the velocity will decrease more than the area increases, so flow is adversely affected (example - four inch exhaust system on a 1.6 liter engine). Bigger is not better in this particular area. Vinny i have been doing this many many years and i have spent endless hours on the DYNE. We test this stuff because my TC is basically a small motor and i need to get each and every bit of HP out of it. With a big V8 It is a little different. But a big car with a small low torque motor you have to extract every single HP available. How else can i embarras those V8 Guys. Thanks and have a good weekend Vinnie

ler

Reply #20 – February 18, 2012, 09:21:06 PM

You too Tom. have a great weekend. I'm gonna order pizza and watch DVD's with my boy while my sweetie is in Texas at a Daughtry concert with her gal pals.

ler

Reply #21 – February 18, 2012, 09:30:21 PM

Sounds good i just ordered some old DVD movies and am going to watch them as we speak Thanks. Have Fun

ler

Reply #22 – February 19, 2012, 02:12:57 PM

All exhaust systems are a restriction. The name of the game is to reduce that restriction as much as possible, while maintaining a acceptable sound, and of course getting the poisonous gasses safely away from the driver and passengers. Perhaps 2.5 would be too big for a 3.8 with duals and good flowing s. Its a good size for a V8. Not enough restriction can cause the exhaust valves to burn up. Duals would be a good idea for sound and flow. H or X pipe makes it even better. Yes, turbo lers do restrict. All lers do, but they flow way better than OEM.

ler

Reply #23 – February 19, 2012, 02:46:40 PM

Not enough restriction can cause the exhaust valves to burn up.

Old WIVES TALE

but they flow way better than OEM.

Not completely true. Aftermarket lers are basically designed for different sounding exhaust not back pressure or flow.

Some say that "an engine needs backpressure to work correctly." Is this true?

No. This idea is a myth. As with all myths,

People fear that too little backpressure will lead to valve burning. That is not true unless the engine is running extremely LEAN

ler

Reply #24 – February 20, 2012, 01:28:29 AM

I know a guy with a sn-95 3.8 that was running 4" duals on a stock n/a block, without any problems. He was running a stock computer, no chip. He said it just made it a bit louder. He got it installed because he was going to a high hp 418" stroker block, but ended up putting it off for a year or two, so he put the 3.8 back in.

No cross over pipe is required for the 3.8, where it has a ballanced firing order. Part of the v-8 rumble, is what requires a cross over pipe. Two cylinders adjacent to each other fire one right after another. This makes that bank move too much air, so a cross over pipe is used to stop the air from "backing up". Basically, you do not need a cross over, and technically, neither does a v-8 depending on your setup. If you are running a good enough flowing exhaust and intake setup, the collector works as the merging pipe. Your exhaust system should actually be setup according to your firing order.

ler

Reply #25 – February 20, 2012, 06:51:30 AM

When we tested MAN A FREE exhausts on in lines we tested this by pairing off cylinders. (Three in to two) Here is what we found

H pipe has a slightly narrower power band than an x pipe does . The X pipe also smooths things out a good bit more and gives mid and top . But it depends on the firing order in a V8 as stated above. I have never seen a late model Mustang without an H pipe because of the firing order. Pulse smoothing. That is why i posted single exhausts can make more HP over some true duals.

Here is what i wrote
A Y pipe cancels out NOISE from frequency differential and can make more HP than duals in some cases.

NOTE Frequencies differential is what i call Siamese cylinder firing.

Cross over pipes always increase bottom end. H pipes work on upper rpm band. Once again i have never seen a stock later model mustang without one. What do i know i am the JERK WITH A DYNE!!!!!!!

http://www.spintechlers.com/x-pipes-h-pipes-y-pipes/cat_57.html

Every car guy on the planet knows the distinct sound of a mustang because of it's firing order and H pipe.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ler

Reply #26 – February 20, 2012, 06:26:15 PM

What I was trying to say that I didn't really get out, was that a 3.8 needs no cross over pipe. if you do all the pipe on your own, it would be easier to skip it. If you used a v-8 kit, I am not sure if a cross over would help or not.

ler

Reply #27 – February 20, 2012, 08:24:51 PM

Tom, why must you make every thread into an argument? We were simply telling our opinions, and what has worked for us. Sorry about the whole "not enough restriction" thing. It is just something I have always heard. It makes sense that it is just an old wives tale. Turbo lers have always worked for me in the past. Seem to get more power with them than stock lers. Apparently, they work for Vinnie as well. Haystack makes an interesting point about crossovers. I for one would have a cross over anyhow. Local exhaust shops will put them in for a little bit of nothing.

ler

Reply #28 – February 21, 2012, 06:41:18 AM

Chrome i am not arguing at all. I personally like to pass on info to help people as i do on all the GM sites as well as the Porsche Honda Toyota Mazda ETC. If i sound like i am arguing i apologize. Stacks brought out a good point on Pairing which we did a great amount of testing on. As the matter of fact an early gen chevy can gain a lot of HP by a 4-7 swap. Just as a Mustang is a unique sounding car with it,s firing order and H pipe. Look at it this way. Years ago guys wanted to swap out their old 3 speed manual transmissions for the Muncie 4 speeder. We did a lot of them and most of the swaps were a disasters. Here is why The 3 speeder had a lower first gear than the Muncie. Like some where around 2.8-2.9 but the Muncie even in the higher ratio was only 2.52-2.56 depending on the model. And an optional 220 first. Well heavy car reduced first gear ratio the car fell on it's face. But no one cared they were up grading to a 4 speeder and in their mind the car performed better. The guys that got the close ratio boxes 220 were really disappointed pairing it up with a final drive of like 3.08 ETC. I explained this to them before hand and they did not care until the car performed like . So just adding a gear 3 to 4 forward was not the full story. A rear gear swap was needed in the car as well. Just an example. Of how systems must be balanced like the exhaust. As Vinny pointed out Loud is not Fast!!!!

ler

Reply #29 – February 21, 2012, 11:51:00 PM

Quote from: FirstBird;380763

What ler would you guys suggest for a 3.8 mine seems to be rotting out so i want to get it replaced. Also is the tailpipe 2.5 or 2.25? Thanks

First off, all the piping is 2.25", secondly, in my opinion, a magnaflow sounds great with stock piping and cats. Not extremely loud, but does have some grumble to it and can really be heard when you step on it. I ran a glasspack for a while, but that was after the cats blew themselves empty and I was also dumping right before the rear axle. It did sound really good though. I am running a thrush right now, and while it does have a nice idle, it doesn't sound so great at high rpm's. In fact, it really isn't that loud. But I am running a single 2.5" y pipe not duals so that could have something to do with it. It might sound better with the cats though, as I run the same ler on my truck, and it sounds amazing.

If you want to hear what mine sounds like with the thrush just to give you an idea it is on my project thread in my sig on one of the last pages. But keep in mind mine is currently a complete custom set with headers and no cats.

Also, do not be afraid to go on youtube and listen to what the 3.8 mustang guys have put on their cars. They have almost the exact same engine, (granted, yes the fuel injection system is a little different, but its the same idea), and unless they have a fully custom exhaust system, whatever ler they have put on theirs will sound almost exactly the same on yours.