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Topic: How should the brakes feel? (Read 2386 times) previous topic - next topic

How should the brakes feel?

So I had the master cylender and front brake pads replaced on my '87 T-bird (the rear shoes were  still alright), expecting a lot more stopping power when I hit the brakes. To my dismay, the brake pedal still requires more effort and just feathering it (like in all the modern cars I've driven), and while it's firmer feeling than it used to be, I still have to press pretty hard to get it to stop.

Is this just the way it is on old cars like this?

How should the brakes feel?

Reply #1 –
did you bleed the lines? and have you checked the rears?
--Steve
[thread=28690]1988 Cougar V6[/thread]
2012 F-150 3.7L
2011 Mustang 3.7L

How should the brakes feel?

Reply #2 –
Lines have been bled as well as new shoes on the back. It's a bit better but still sucks. I've had to push the break pedal down all the way a few times during normal driving for a somewhat hard stop.

How should the brakes feel?

Reply #3 –
When I did my brakes about a month ago, I realized that most everything was original (26 years old). I replace everything, all hardware, shoes, drums, rotors, calipers, brake lines, and pads. Now they are better than I can ever remember in the 7 years that I've owned it. There is a break in period for new brakes, maybe you just need to put a few miles on them. I also noticed that after I put a little more money in for good quality parts, I got my money's worth.

How should the brakes feel?

Reply #4 –
If I were you, I'd pony up for some calipers.  At the very least, caliper kits (assuming you have access to a caliper hone).  The square cut seal in the calipers tends to either wear, or expand slightly after that many years, additionally you can find the piston to be corroded or loaded up with crud under the dustboot (depending on the condition of said boot).  Follow with a good bleed, and even though I'll catch hell for this, I recommend flushing the brake fluid (especially if any of it, any at all, is as old as the car).  The reason is that Dot3 absorbs moisture from the air every time you open the cap.  This also includes the half bottle of fluid you added that sat in your garage for a year with the seal broken.  With moisture comes air(at high temps the water in the fluid boils and separates into it's component gasses), and with air and moisture comes corrosion, thermal expansion, brake fade and a softer pedal.  All of these are worse when the brakes are hot.  At my shop we flush with Dot4, why? Not completely sure except that it absorbs less moisture and boils at a higher temp (I'm not a chemist or an engineer, though, so don't quote me).  Some of the '13 cars are starting to come with DOT5.1 which is fully synthetic.

How should the brakes feel?

Reply #5 –
Liquids are incompressible.  With that said if you are having to push the pedal all the way down to get the car to stop something is not functioning correctly.  First the MC could be bypassing and yes I know its new but did you bench bleed it before it was installed?  Second, are the front calipers in good shape as TheFoeYouKnow stated above?  If they are the originals then change them along with the front soft lines.  Third, do the rear brakes function as needed?  If the rear slave cylinders are the stock units replace them along with a new hardware kits.  IF you do the rear slave cylinders then replace the rear soft line between the axle and body.  The soft lines will eventually close up on the inside as the old rubber expands.  Found this on one of my cars and battle those  brakes for days before I figured it out.  And last, definitely cycle all of the old brake fluid out of the system as mentioned above.

One other note is the rod inside the booster that actuates the MC has to be correctly adjusted.  Typically you do not mess with this if you are putting a stock MC back in the car but I thought I would bring it up to cover all the bases.

Is this expensive or more than most people want to pay?  Usually, but compared to stopping in time and not wrecking its cheap.

Darren

83 351W TKO'd T-Bird on the bottle


93 331 Mustang Coupe - 368 rwhp

How should the brakes feel?

Reply #6 –
If you really want good brakes, what I've noticed is most everything is designed for 5 lug application. That would make it real expensive for me, because I have 4 lug rims. I would love to have disc rear brakes!

How should the brakes feel?

Reply #7 –
Brakes, like most safety systems, aren't cheap initially, but are well worth the investment.  I have seen many a nice car sent to the s yard for want of nothing more than a reasonable investment in brakes. It happens because we have become a disposable society who doesn't do the work to maintain vehicles, or anything else for that matter, anymore. About 10 years ago, I rescued a '93 Cobra from just that fate and all she needed was a MC, calipers, new pads and a flush of the lines.  I bought her for $600 after the PO had been told that it was going to cost her $1500 for the brake work.  It took 2 weekends, about $500 in parts and materials and I found her a new loving home for $6,500 four days after I put her up for sale. My point is that having the knowledge of how to tackle these kinds of tasks not only puts us in the minority in this country, but at a distinct advantage over those that don't know how to do anything more complicated than filling the tank and maybe changing the oil.

How should the brakes feel?

Reply #8 –
Not much advantage stopping power wise going from drum in the rear to disc when it comes to the four lug set ups.  Been there done that and wished I had saved my money.

Darren

83 351W TKO'd T-Bird on the bottle


93 331 Mustang Coupe - 368 rwhp

How should the brakes feel?

Reply #9 –
There is an advantage to be sure, but it isn't as simple as just replacing the brakes in the rear.  You have to change the MC and plumb in a proportioning valve to be able to adjust the bias correctly, after many rounds of testing.  Otherwise, you actually decrease the effectiveness of the braking system by increasing front-end bias, seen in increased stopping distances.

How should the brakes feel?

Reply #10 –
I would try bleeding them a few more times, sounds like you still have air in the system.

How should the brakes feel?

Reply #11 –
when you stop and at times does the nose of the car dip down?

How should the brakes feel?

Reply #12 –
Foe,
interesting thoughts, is there a way a general wrench like me can fully back presure the lines with air so i can empty out all the old stuff.
I agree with your air / corrosion opinion, physically seen in in about every moving part and as well every brake line on my cars.

I generally end up wasting a lot of brake fluid just to make sure i bleed enough.

How should the brakes feel?

Reply #13 –
About a month ago was the first time I had ever attempted doing the brakes. I cheated.... I bought everything brand new. So, all I did basically was remove and replace. The disc's were fast and easy, the drum's well... I had to put a muzzle on it, I didn't want to neighbors to here me. I really didn't put a whole lot of money in them, about $500.00 at most. Now I have the piece of mind knowing everything is new and functional. I was shocked to find that everything except the shoes, drums, pads, and rotors were original parts.