351/Longtubes/Column Shift

Topic: 351/Longtubes/Column Shift (Read 2126 times) previous topic - next topic

351/Longtubes/Column Shift

November 18, 2011, 11:20:40 AM

Anybody have this combo?

Im going to have a little cash at the end of the year to blow and started looking at options. Basically, a Vortech vs a 351 swap. Overall, I bet the Vortech would be cheaper, but by the time you add mass air, injectors and a tune, probably not by THAT much.

I dig the column shift, but Id lose it if I have to. Im assuming even with the floor shifter, you probably have to take a BFH to longtubes to get it to all fit. Ive always had shorties, whats the real life experience like installing them?

Swap combo would be really basic, factory crank and rods, but at least forged pistons. Pro Products intake for a 302 "look", and it looks like tfs 190cc fac heads are the value buy for this combo. Thought about a 393 for a second, but apparently the cheap cranks are almost impossible to balance.

Insight?

351/Longtubes/Column Shift

Reply #1 – November 18, 2011, 12:21:24 PM

I would strongly suggest that you stay away from long tubes with a stock K-member especially with a 351W. I have a Griggs K-member with custom 1-7/8" primary LT's and if they were not custom built it would be a huge pain in the ass versus just a pain. I would go with the blower and call it a day if it were me especially since you want to keep the column shift.

Here are the pictures of the exhaust for my swap:

http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?31210-Custom-Exhaust-for-the-351W

Darren

351/Longtubes/Column Shift

Reply #2 – November 18, 2011, 01:34:02 PM

Subscribing: I'm starting my project over with a 351W also, with long tubes and AOD, except mine is a floor shift. Most that I know with a stock K-member have resorted to using stock cast manifolds. With Chuck W mounts, I'm not sure stock manifolds will clear (depending on original application of course) so I have to wonder on that one. I guess you could say I'm piggybacking this thread, and asking if anyone has done the 351W swap using a stock K-member, and long tube headers?

The 351C slip tube headers I have now, might be the base I start from.

351/Longtubes/Column Shift

Reply #3 – November 18, 2011, 01:43:11 PM

Am I correct in assuming the 86+ cars have the non-Mustang type motor mounts? If so I am guessing that can make things a little more difficult with regards to the headers and the overall clearances with the wider motor. I know there are a lot of cars out there with a 302W based stroker motor making great power. If you are going to install the 351W and choke it with some kind of stock exhaust manifold then I would definitely think the 302W with a stoker kit would outperform the 351W and you would keep the weight off the nose of the car.

Darren

351/Longtubes/Column Shift

Reply #4 – November 18, 2011, 01:59:42 PM

Correct, the K-member is set up to use a different than Mustang motor mount. These would be Chuck W's type 6. I have a pair, and after spending the last year or more shoe horning the 400cid engine into my '87, I decided to pull it all out and go with a 351W that I have laying around the garage. I guess my point was that I pretty much know the 351W with any type header is a fairly tight fit with a stock K-member, let alone attempt it with long tubes. The 351C headers I was using has the tubes line up 4 in a row, with a flatter collector. I may attempt to modify these (again) to make it work with a 351W, or I might go with the BBK shorties. Either way, if anyone through experience has successfully installed long tubes with a 351W and stock K with any Fox, I'd like to hear it.

351/Longtubes/Column Shift

Reply #5 – November 18, 2011, 04:16:19 PM

Well, I guess that's out. But that's why I asked. I can't imagine the 1 5/8 swap shorties being good enough. Didn't bassani make some 1 3/4" shorties?

Huh.

A budget kmember kit plus 351 weight sounds like a disaster, and a mm kmember / arms would blow the budget.

I'm just leery of tuning, and splitting a stock block.

351/Longtubes/Column Shift

Reply #6 – November 19, 2011, 10:23:22 AM

There are hundreds of guys out there that have 450+ rwhp 302W based motors with a blower that have been on the road for years. You just have to do your research and find a reputable tuner. The biggest part of the equation is keeping the tune from detonating. You need to really sit down and figure out what you are trying to accomplish and what your budget is as too many people do not do this and end up with a mismatched motor that never performs. We have to remember that these things are just air pumps you can only put in what you can take you and visa versa. A blower forces air in the motor but you have to have an exhaust that will get all the air out that was forced in or it is not efficient.

For example, the 302W in my Coupe is a 306 that puts down 318 rwhp / 323 ft-lbs of torque which in its own right is fun as all hell to drive but I am the typical gear head and want more. I have an Ed Curtis custom ground cam shaft to put in it but according to Ed that requires having the Edelbrock RPM heads ported. I call a porter in Arkansas highly recommended by several engine builders and racers and he says that the Edelbrock Performer RPM II lower intake will have to be ported as well to get all the benefits out of the port job on the heads. I talk to my enginer builder and he agrees and so do several other people who have tons more experience than I do. So if I do the cam and port work I will probably see about 350 rwhp / 370 ft-lbs of torque but the cost is roughly $1,400 (cam, porting, misc gaskets, and shipping). The cam is still sitting in the box it cam in as the $900 for the porting is a little out of reach right now and I am questioning my sanity.

I could just supercharge the car but that adds weight over the nose and I would have to change pistons (12:1 compression ratio), camshaft, injectors, and retune the car to get the full benefit of the blower. I am pretty sure it would make over 450+ rwhp but at what cost? IF I would have chosen the blower path to begin with it would have been cheaper than doing basically two builds. I did not want a blower combo due to the weight over the nose because I would have installed an inner cooler as well. Enough with the what I would have done stuff.

What I am trying to point out here is that you need a clear plan, a budget, and if you are not going to build the engine sit down with your engine builder and get the combo figured out before you spend any money. Remember, it all starts with the camshaft and off the shelf ones are pretty good but a custom cam will make more power and only cost about $100 more. If you go the custom cam route you will need to install the springs that the cam builder recommends but valve springs are a wear item anyhow.

Darren