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front control arms

Hey guys, has anyone had any problems using the 87-93 mustang front control arms on there bird? I know they are about 3/4 shorter than ours(which will bring the tires in a little better) and i have a set to use but i seen on cool cats http://www.coolcats.net/modifying/controlarms.html that it is not advisable to do this with out changing the cross member. I remember a guy on here (PDully i think) done this with no problems.

Thanks for any feedback, Joe
88 sport,TW heads, comp xe270hr, cobra u/Tmoss ported lower, 65 mm throttle body, under drives,smog delete,
1.7 roller rockers, cai, k&n, bbk adj regulator, 76mm Pro-m,all MSD ign. MSD dist,18° base timing, 3g alt.1 5/8 ceramic headers, 255lph walbro, 2.5" h-pipe, flowmasters, silverfox valvebody, 3.73 gear,
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc154/flipnbird/DSCF0185.jpg ( RIP : ( )

front control arms

Reply #1 –
If you use them on an '86-'88 car, it'll definitely cause issues unless you swap the k member with either a Mustang unit, or a pre '86 Tbird/Cougar.
'98 Explorer 5.0
'20 Malibu (I know, Chevy, but, 35MPG. Let's go brandon, eh)

front control arms

Reply #2 –
what kind of issues if i may ask??....if its gonna mess shnit up then i'm not doin it, they would be going on an 88 but i remember (PDully?) doing it and saying everything was good, looked better in the front also!!
Thanks for the quick reply
88 sport,TW heads, comp xe270hr, cobra u/Tmoss ported lower, 65 mm throttle body, under drives,smog delete,
1.7 roller rockers, cai, k&n, bbk adj regulator, 76mm Pro-m,all MSD ign. MSD dist,18° base timing, 3g alt.1 5/8 ceramic headers, 255lph walbro, 2.5" h-pipe, flowmasters, silverfox valvebody, 3.73 gear,
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc154/flipnbird/DSCF0185.jpg ( RIP : ( )

front control arms

Reply #3 –
I have a hard time believing it is going to cause issues.  You will probably need to get caster/camber plates to get the front end to align... But I'd like an expert explanation on why swapping the shorter fox mustang a-arms to the 88 thunderbird won't work?

Are the a-arm mount points that different?  I have heard fox mustang guys swap to sn95 or thunderbird a-arms...

front control arms

Reply #4 –
Because the K member is wider, and the control arms shorter on Fox stang, compared to an '86-88 Bird/Cat. Basically, we have the same K and control arms as the Sn95 Stangs.

Now, you probably can use Fox arms with an aftermarket tube k member...unless it's made with the SN95 Stang's dimensions..Dunno, I've never messed with a tube K member.

There's a sticky (i think?) thread somewhere in this section that has all this info ad nauseum. :)


But I will guarantee that if use Fox control arms on an '86 and up Bird/Cougar k member, you will have serious camber issues. Not sure if c/c plates would be enough to bring it in. And honestly..why swap arms? There's a reason they went to longer arms.. ;)
'98 Explorer 5.0
'20 Malibu (I know, Chevy, but, 35MPG. Let's go brandon, eh)

front control arms

Reply #5 –
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;368511
. And honestly..why swap arms? There's a reason they went to longer arms.. ;)

The reason i want to swap is to bring the front tires in that 3/4" so that they wont stick out as far, tucking them in the fenderwell a little better.
If anyone can verify that this causes a problem with the way the car will perform please chime in.......

Thanks again
88 sport,TW heads, comp xe270hr, cobra u/Tmoss ported lower, 65 mm throttle body, under drives,smog delete,
1.7 roller rockers, cai, k&n, bbk adj regulator, 76mm Pro-m,all MSD ign. MSD dist,18° base timing, 3g alt.1 5/8 ceramic headers, 255lph walbro, 2.5" h-pipe, flowmasters, silverfox valvebody, 3.73 gear,
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc154/flipnbird/DSCF0185.jpg ( RIP : ( )

front control arms

Reply #6 –
You'll need to deal with any camber issues, but they'll bolt in just fine, and pull the wheels in a bit on each side.

83-86 TBirds use the "Fox Mustang" control arms, and the 87-88 use arms that are dimensionally the same as the 94-04 Mustangs.

You'll want the later arms for a more direct replacement on your car, unless you're having specific wheel/tire fitment problems.
Long live the 4-eyes!  - '83 Tbird Turbo - '85 Marquis LTS - '86 LTD Wagon

front control arms

Reply #7 –
I have 86 control arms on my 88 to bring everything in as far as I could and got caster/camber plates AND crash bolts in the top and bottom strut holes.  I run 3-3.5* camber but it ended up only having around 1* of caster.  I'm planning to go to fox 3/4" forward control arms over the winter to try and get away with less camber in the front.  Kinda depends what it does while racing.

88 t-bird tc - 14.97 @ 90  IHI 18 psi + k+n filter...so far - NOW HX-35 @25psi - 12.75@112    348rwhp/395rwtq
78 F-150 - 11.61@120 on 175shot N20 - 12.55@110 on motor - 5200# race weight:hick:

front control arms

Reply #8 –
Fordguy, did you mean 3-3.5 deg caster and -1 deg camber?  I'm running about that on my 92 mustang.  Is sure does help with tracking straighter and turn-in.

I'd plan to run fox a-arms if my wheels are wider.

front control arms

Reply #9 –
I'm running AJE tubular mustang control arms with 17x9 wheels up front. camber plates are a must and should be mounted inboard slightly to get enough adjustment. I also had to shorten my tie rods a little. I'm thinking about going back to stock because im sick of my hearing creaks from my coil-overs.

turbo charged 94 Cobra engine/440cc injectors/megasquirt /5 speed swapped (T5)/maxbox upper intake/70mm PP throttle body/AJE coilovers/2003 Mustang control arms/S.T. sway bars/ES rear control arm bushings/11" brake conversion/manual rack conversion/8.8 TC rear with rear discs and a welded diff/3.73 gears/PLX wideband/199mph speedometer/Aeromotive FPR/CNC hydraulic hand brake/cobra R wheels/....ect.

front control arms

Reply #10 –
Quote from: fordguy545;368573
I have 86 control arms on my 88 to bring everything in as far as I could and got caster/camber plates AND crash bolts in the top and bottom strut holes.  I run 3-3.5* camber but it ended up only having around 1* of caster.  I'm planning to go to fox 3/4" forward control arms over the winter to try and get away with less camber in the front.  Kinda depends what it does while racing.

So the shorter fox arms will work? I was planning on running C/C plates but what are these crash bolts and 3/4" forward control arms? In this pic http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc154/flipnbird/DSCF0183.jpg  you can see that the front tires stick out a little to much for my liking and I was just trying to bring them in a little more under the wheel well. I've had the shorter arms in the back of the garage for a few years now and my son was wanting something car related to do so i figured ..........
88 sport,TW heads, comp xe270hr, cobra u/Tmoss ported lower, 65 mm throttle body, under drives,smog delete,
1.7 roller rockers, cai, k&n, bbk adj regulator, 76mm Pro-m,all MSD ign. MSD dist,18° base timing, 3g alt.1 5/8 ceramic headers, 255lph walbro, 2.5" h-pipe, flowmasters, silverfox valvebody, 3.73 gear,
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc154/flipnbird/DSCF0185.jpg ( RIP : ( )

front control arms

Reply #11 –
Are the creaks from your chassis or from the springs/struts themselves?

front control arms

Reply #12 –
Quote from: The Shredder;368614
Fordguy, did you mean 3-3.5 deg caster and -1 deg camber?  I'm running about that on my 92 mustang.  Is sure does help with tracking straighter and turn-in.

I'd plan to run fox a-arms if my wheels are wider.

Nope, it is what I said it was.  3-3.5 camber and 1 caster.  The shorter arms mess up the caster settings. 

3/4" forward control arms - should fix caster issues.
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_79_216_461_464&products_id=391

crash bolts
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/IEC-81280/

With the way the front suspension ends up in my autox car with the short control arms, 3-3.5 is the most camber I can get with those bolts in both top and bottom holes in the strut.  In my other 88, which has the 88 arms in it still, I can get over 5* camber in the front end with the camber bolts in both holes.

88 t-bird tc - 14.97 @ 90  IHI 18 psi + k+n filter...so far - NOW HX-35 @25psi - 12.75@112    348rwhp/395rwtq
78 F-150 - 11.61@120 on 175shot N20 - 12.55@110 on motor - 5200# race weight:hick:

front control arms

Reply #13 –
Quote from: fordguy545;368727
Nope, it is what I said it was.  3-3.5 camber and 1 caster.  The shorter arms mess up the caster settings. 

3/4" forward control arms - should fix caster issues.
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_79_216_461_464&products_id=391

crash bolts
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/IEC-81280/

With the way the front suspension ends up in my autox car with the short control arms, 3-3.5 is the most camber I can get with those bolts in both top and bottom holes in the strut.  In my other 88, which has the 88 arms in it still, I can get over 5* camber in the front end with the camber bolts in both holes.

Eh-hem

"These Fastcam camber adjusting bolts from Ingalls Engineering are intended for use in vehicles with abnormal alignment and are designed to replace the non-adjustable factory equipment. These bolts allow up to +/-2 degrees of adjustment. They are not intended for vehicles with suspension and/or steering systems modified for racing, competition, or any other non-standard purpose."

You are busted.

front control arms

Reply #14 –
Quote from: The Shredder;368683
Are the creaks from your chassis or from the springs/struts themselves?

My experience with CC plates and coilovers is added noise from the suspension.  Clanking and creaking at certain times. You get used to it or you hate it.