Lost. Big problems, Long explanation.

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Lost. Big problems, Long explanation.

May 04, 2010, 02:56:37 AM

Hey everybody.

I have a couple of topics over at TF.... I'll copy the Mod list and such here

Steeda AFPR
Cleaned and Flowmatched Stock Browntops
Gutted upper, knifed lower intake
SC TB assembly, with a modified stock TPS
EGR delete
T3/To4E .57 trim, .48 Hot Side
Hallman PRo RX MBC set at 15 PSI
New WG actuator
Stinger FMIC kit
K&N Cone filter on the end of VAM
Remanufactured (new as of yesterday) VAM
A/C removed
Walbro 255HP Pump with kit sold by JD's Performance
Boport 1.5 cam, New HLA's Roller followers
Esslinger Adjustable Cam gear, Set Straight up.
NEW Autolite 764 plugs Gapped at .028
NEW motorcraft cap, rotor, plug wires
Tested good dist and TFI fwiw
Timing is set at 10*BTDC Spout Out
Gutted Cat, Straight 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust
Compression #'s

Cyl 4: 155
Cyl 3: 150
Cyl 2: 145
Cyl 1: 145

Problems: The car misfires at idle, and WILL NOT idle smooth. If you stab the throttle at idle, you can get it to misfire, and while its misfiring it will shoot puffs of black smoke out of the tailpipe. This tells me IGNITION MISS. If you rev it up to 6K and snap the throttle shut, it will sometimes stall and won't want to restart. When it doesnt want to start, the engine sounds (when you crank it over) like if you had all the spark plugs out and were doing a compression test. Eventually you can get it re-started, but it still runs rough. On the road, it breaks up and stumbles badly at any steady rpm, and it seems to get worse as the load increases, such as holding it at a steady speed while going up a hill.

If you go to the TF links below, it will show the things that have been checked and replaced, and what I have done so far. I really have gotten nowhere, and now it seems like I can't get anyone to respond to my threads over there.

here are the links:

http://www.turboford.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=052930

http://www.turboford.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=053075

Any help would be appreciated. I'm really upset that my car is not running right.

Lost. Big problems, Long explanation.

Reply #1 – May 04, 2010, 07:12:57 AM

Has it ever idled correctly? Did any of those mods help or hinder the problem?

Did you pull the codes?

Lost. Big problems, Long explanation.

Reply #2 – May 04, 2010, 07:25:19 AM

It looks to me like you have much of your diagnostics covered, that is, you have gone through the car fairly well.

Have you checked the output of the various temperature sending units? If the ECM thinks it is hotter outside than it really is, the car will run very lean though the ECM will of course attempt to richen it up in response to what it sees at the O2.

If your temp senders are in good order, I think I would look at injector size. With the modifications you have, I wonder if your injectors aren't seriously undersized.

Another thought... I don't recall if these cars are sequential or batch fire. If they are sequential, is the distributor set so that number one is in the correct place. I once had an HO-5.0 that idled terribly, randomly misfired, etc, and it was because someone had moved the ignition wires one step on the cap to enable them to get more timing. I moved the distributor one tooth, and reset the wires to their proper places, and it ran smooth as silk.

One thing to try; when the car won't restart, spray some carburetor cleaner
(like Berkible) into the intake tube (after the turbo) and see if it doesn't start. This would confirm an overly lean condition is contributing to your problem.

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

Lost. Big problems, Long explanation.

Reply #3 – May 04, 2010, 08:48:50 AM

Did you check the hose leading to the MAP sensor?

Lost. Big problems, Long explanation.

Reply #4 – May 04, 2010, 09:29:11 AM

Quote from: Clintd;320635

Did you check the hose leading to the MAP sensor?

On a 2.3T it's a BAP, not a MAP.

There should be NO hose connected to it.

Lost. Big problems, Long explanation.

Reply #5 – May 04, 2010, 09:38:12 AM

I see NOTHING where you have actually checked/logged AF. (You mention eventually installing a WB, but I see no posts where you actually have).

Do that before you do anything else.

I see a bunch of bolt-on parts you are trying to run on a stock ECU and stock injectors...

You already said you melted a pintle cap on an injector. Something is getting hot and lean.

Your idle issue may just be the nature of the beast (I've had some 2.3Ts idle smooth as silk, others not-so-much), but if it's laying down at any load, and you've already ruled out plugs, etc, I would start looking at fuel.

Lost. Big problems, Long explanation.

Reply #6 – May 04, 2010, 03:22:19 PM

Quote from: Chuck W;320639

I see NOTHING where you have actually checked/logged AF. (You mention eventually installing a WB, but I see no posts where you actually have).

Do that before you do anything else.

+1

Additionally, the first thing that came to mind was "coil". In one thread you tested with second coil? I'd test with a third. Considering how much work you've done, you're about to the point of having to verify 'good' things, ie maybe you got a new part that was defective out of the box.

good luck and keep us posted

Lost. Big problems, Long explanation.

Reply #7 – May 04, 2010, 04:48:48 PM

Also try replacing your the ignition module on your dizzy. We had a 3.8 that acted a lot like that and replaced the coil and module, 98% better.

Lost. Big problems, Long explanation.

Reply #8 – May 04, 2010, 06:47:45 PM

Quote from: Chuck W;320639

I see NOTHING where you have actually checked/logged AF. (You mention eventually installing a WB, but I see no posts where you actually have).

Do that before you do anything else.

I see a bunch of bolt-on parts you are trying to run on a stock ECU and stock injectors...

You already said you melted a pintle cap on an injector. Something is getting hot and lean.

Your idle issue may just be the nature of the beast (I've had some 2.3Ts idle smooth as silk, others not-so-much), but if it's laying down at any load, and you've already ruled out plugs, etc, I would start looking at fuel.

I see where you are going, Chuck. As far as the bolt on parts, with turning the boost down and upping fuel pressure, I should get it to run just fine. Now that I have the car actually back in my driveway (it was an hour away) I can get the Zeitronix wired in the rest of the way, and get the bung welded in the exhaust. After that, i can get some A/F numbers for you.

The melted pintle cap MAY have happened when i threw a follower with the stock cam last fall, since the car WAS driven for a couple of miles home. It was ran for about 3 or 4 minutes trying to get it to a parking lot, and after that I ended up pulling the injector plug to drive it home on 3 cyl.

As far as fuel goes, we have a NEW walbro 255, a Steeda regulator, and known good injectors. After we found out that the pintle cap on the #2 injector had melted, we pulled them and re-flow tested them. They were all correct, in spec, and flowing the same. Even the melted one (we took it as-is out of the car and tested it) sprayed the same pattern, and flowed correct. NOW, since we KNOW we lost cyl# 2 at that time, we just pulled the injector plug, and not the spark plug. Thats how we found that # 2 was not firing, as pulling the harness did not change the way it ran. WE looked at the injector, saw the tip melted, and figured that the injector was not firing. It more than likely was the PLUG at that point that didnt fire.

At this point, we think that we are having an ignition miss for SOME reason. I really don't think PIP, since when it , the tach isnt jumping around... plus there was no code 14. i suppose that a TFI COULD cause this problem..... it is also a possibility that the TFI/Dist that we swapped in at one point was NOT a good unit. This is what I'm going to do:

I have Allan Slospooge's 2.3T EEC-IV handbook, and it has a whole bunch of voltage tests that I can do. I'm going to do them one by one, and record all the info i can from the sensors. After i get this info, I'll post up my findings for everyone to see. It may be about 5 or 6 days until I can get this stuff though, since my son is going into surgery at 7AM tommorow to fix a heart defect. once he is home and comfertable, I'll be able to look at it again.

Lost. Big problems, Long explanation.

Reply #9 – May 04, 2010, 06:49:28 PM

Quote from: t3skidoo;320658

+1

Additionally, the first thing that came to mind was "coil". In one thread you tested with second coil? I'd test with a third. Considering how much work you've done, you're about to the point of having to verify 'good' things, ie maybe you got a new part that was defective out of the box.

good luck and keep us posted

Already done :)

We replaced the coil with an old one out of a junk car, no change. The first thing I did upon getting it back home was change the coil with one of my known good spares. No changes. Bothe the origonal one and the known good one ohmed out about the same as well FWIW.

Lost. Big problems, Long explanation.

Reply #10 – May 04, 2010, 08:36:12 PM

a few years ago I had similar issues and it ended up being a pulled wire in the TPS connector.