Air-Conditioning service

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Air-Conditioning service

April 20, 2005, 10:17:17 AM

As we all know, the weather is warming up. The A/C in my Cougar is D.O.A. Unknown status. The compressor does not come on, but I also know it will not unless I "hotwire" it, or recharge the system. What conversion kits do you guys recommend? I can change all the o-rings with R-134 friendly ones and replace the acspoogeulator and that can be the easy way out? I have done A/C work before, but the small details evade me. I seem to remember some oil compatability issues as well. Please advise.

Re: Air-Conditioning service

Reply #1 – April 20, 2005, 10:42:40 AM

Well, I'm sorry I can't help ya with what you're asking.. but when I took my '86 to a friend who owns a repair shop, he offered to put in some coolant to test the system to see if it leaked. It's something called "hotshot", I think.. it's compatible with R12. Only problem is, I think someone said once (might've been him, might've been one of the websites I went looking for details on) that it tends to acspoogeulate bubbles in certain spots over prolonged use, and becomes less effective. I know if I took the car on a road trip of longer than about 100 miles, the air would start to get a little weak near the end of the trip. Anyway, I guess that's always an alternative if you're looking for another possible easy way out. My friend put that stuff in thinking it might last a week or two if my system was bad, (I had just bought the car, didn't know much about it) but it ended up lasting the entire year. It probably needs recharging now, but it can still cool the car.

Re: Air-Conditioning service

Reply #2 – April 20, 2005, 11:08:17 AM

Im not sure if that is the way to go. I was hoping to convert because the materials are easier to locate. Plus I dont want to have to deal with the system losing effectiveness after long trips. I can do the work and have access to the testing tools. It is just the specifics that I can not remember! :hick:

Re: Air-Conditioning service

Reply #3 – April 20, 2005, 11:13:28 AM

Well, keep in mind, I live in south Florida.. and it was still tolerable over time down here, it just wasn't ice cold after about 100 miles.

What about stuff like this? http://www.refimax.com/products/fr12.htm#

I'm sure someone will come along with the 134 details sooner or later, for your original question.

Re: Air-Conditioning service

Reply #4 – April 20, 2005, 11:21:28 AM

Now thats good stuff. I didnt realize they made a fully-compatable replacement for R12. I can do that in my driveway...if the price is right.

Re: Air-Conditioning service

Reply #5 – April 20, 2005, 11:27:04 AM

Yeah, if that stuff lives up to its marketing-speak, I might just need to get some put in both my Birds. (the LSC I picked up last night, the guy said the previous owner had went to Puron. Since both guys worked for A/C shops, I guess I'd have to take him at his word.. *shrug*)

Re: Air-Conditioning service

Reply #6 – April 20, 2005, 11:55:24 AM

I've got Duracool in my car and it works great.

Before you do anything, with the engine shut off grab the center of the A/C pulley and see if you can turn it. If you can't, it's seized from not being used and you need a compressor.

Re: Air-Conditioning service

Reply #7 – April 20, 2005, 02:42:44 PM

First, do you have an HR980 compressor or a 6P148A compressor? The HR980 has springlock fittings, the 6P148A has threaded fittings. The HR980 has viton seals, which are incompatible with R-134a and any refrigerant that uses R-134a (FR-12, etc). Hydrocarbon(HC) refrigerants such as Duracool are illegal to use to retrofit a R-12 system under the Clean Air Act. It is legal to replace R-134a though...but only if you don't live in one of the 15+ states that have laws making it illegal to install in a MVAC system (i.e No flammable fluids can enter the passenger area). Hey, it's legal in Canada, so it can't be too bad.

A list showing the chemical makeup and unacceptable substitutes is here.
A study showing effectiveness of R-12/R-134a compared to substitutes is here.

The best bang for your buck would be a drop-in replacement. Installation directions/part replacement differ for each one. I'm not a big fan of drop-ins, but whatever floats your boat...

Whichever way you go, replace the o-rings and acspoogeulator. Flush out all the old oil with your flushing agent of choice. A new orifice tube is recommended. I'd also recommend replacing the springs in the spring locks. You can find a package that has all of the o-rings and springs you need for <$10. Also, never use leak-stopper in any system. It has a bad habit of clogging up orifice tubes and can grenade compressors.

The downside to R-134a in our cars is that we have small/inefficient condensers and mechanical fans which don't flow a whole lot of air at idle. Since R-134a isn't as efficient as R-12 and has a higher pressure for a given temperature than R-12, the compressor will see higher pressures. This will cause higher vent temperatures while in stop-go traffic and could kill a borderline compressor. The solution to these problems is installing a quality electric fan (e.g. MKVIII/Tbird/Taurus) and a SN95 condenser. I've never heard of someone actually putting a SN95 condenser in a fox though. :o

Re: Air-Conditioning service

Reply #8 – April 20, 2005, 04:11:10 PM

Duracool is illegal in USA? Hell, we can buy it for $10 a can over the counter here...

Come to think of it, I don't have Duracool in my car anymore. I forget what it is that I put it after I blew a (brand new, defective crimp) pressure hose last year, but it wasn't Duracool. I replaced the condenser (with an SN95 Mustang unit designed for R134A - twice as many fins), both hoses, the oriface and the acspoogeulator - the only original parts in the system are the evaporator and compressor. It blows 40F at the vents in 90-degree weather, so whatever it is, it works :D

I do note that the compressor is a bit noisey, but I attribute that to its 17-year vintage more than anything. It was noisey with the R12 that was originally in it as well.

I think it may be HC 12a that I used, which is similar to Duracool. I do know that it and Duracool are the only two "over-the-counter" DIY substitutes for R12 that are legal for sale in Canada, at least as of May of last year. We can't even buy R134A in "top-up" cans like you guys can down there. R12 is not even an option anymore. Even if you can find it it's well over $100 a pound!

Re: Air-Conditioning service

Reply #9 – April 20, 2005, 08:41:03 PM

Quote from: Thunder Chicken

I replaced the condenser (with an SN95 Mustang unit designed for R134A - twice as many fins)

OH SNAP! :eek:

Can you tell me how you did this? I looked into putting a SN95 condenser in, but I got lazy and gave up that idea.

Re: Air-Conditioning service

Reply #10 – April 20, 2005, 08:45:55 PM

Quote

It blows 40F at the vents in 90-degree weather, so whatever it is, it works

You get 90 degree weather up there? :D

What did you do, import a bunch of politicians to blow hot air until it hit 90? :p

Re: Air-Conditioning service

Reply #11 – April 20, 2005, 10:06:20 PM

We don't need to import blowhards - we have plenty here.

90-degree temps with 100% humidity are the norm here in July and August, and 100 degrees is not extraordinary. Our summers are not a whole lot cooler than yours, if they're cooler at all. We even get hurricanes (no tornadoes, though) - It's just our winters that suck :D

We're in a unique location - in summer the hot southwest wind blows from the continent and mixes with the humid oceanic air to produce hot, sticky days. In the winter the cold north wind mixes with the humid oceanic air to produce lots of snow, lots of rain, and not-too-cold temperatures when compared to other locations at our lattitude

Re: Air-Conditioning service

Reply #12 – April 20, 2005, 10:10:48 PM

Quote from: JeremyB

OH SNAP! :eek:

Can you tell me how you did this? I looked into putting a SN95 condenser in, but I got lazy and gave up that idea.

Seems to me it just dropped in. A 5.0 SN95 has the same underhood dimensions as our cars after all. I do remember having a helluva time getting that goded low pressure line onto it, but that was because the little spring thingy would not stay in its place and kept on dropping down, prevennting me from getting the line in. I ended up making a plastic "funnel" out of a pop bottle, sticking it in the spring retainer so that it expanded the spring, then stuck the line in and pulled the "funnel" out. Probably one of the most frustrating things I have ever done to that car...

Re: Air-Conditioning service

Reply #13 – April 21, 2005, 01:31:54 AM

Can you post some pictures of the condenser in car?

Tbird Condenser

94-95 SN95 Condenser