Understanding today's paint codes, help with finding metallic gray paint

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Understanding today's paint codes, help with finding metallic gray paint

July 02, 2009, 05:43:45 PM

I need to find a gray metallic similar to the "Sterling Gray" offered on the 2009 F-Series and many other Fords for 2009. Here's my problem. While looking at several 2009 F-Series trucks today, I noticed the 250 and 350 had a really nice metal flake (a.k.a. "more coarse") and the 150 had a so-so metal flake. All the trucks had the same hue of gray but different degrees of flake.

And consistent with the difference in metal flake, the window stickers listed the colors differently as well. All the ones with more flake in the paint had "Sterling Gray Clearcoat Metallic" listed on the sticker and all the ones with less flake had "Sterling Gray Metallic" listed on the sticker.

Thinking there may also be a difference in the paint code, I checked the door tags to get the code of the one I liked and found they all had the same paint code, UJ. The F150 trucks with less flake and the F250 and 350 trucks with more flake all had the same paint code. I don't like the 150 gray but I do like the 250 and 350. The PPG computer however lists all the same paint for all those trucks even though they look different. And they all have a layer of clearcoat, even though the description in the 250 and 350 window sticker spells it out, the 150 has clearcoat too.

WTF?

Anybody know of a similar color out there that is consistent? I'm looking for a gray metallic with a bit more flake than usual - like the 2009 F250 color is perfect. I just can't use that code because it may turn out like the 150.

Understanding today's paint codes, help with finding metallic gray paint

Reply #1 – July 03, 2009, 11:38:23 AM

Just a guess but it might be that the paints for each plant are being sourced from two different suppliers. Therefore the paint supplier for the plant were the Super-Duty is built is putting in a different amount of metal flake in the mix.

When I had my car re-painted, I was able to specify how much metal-flake I wanted and I chose to "up" the amount by a very slight amount. The end result was very similar to what you are describing in the two truck paints.
It's probably not something you would notice unless you parked my car next to another Medium Canyon Red XR-7 that still had original paint. The metallic flake on my car is a little more pr0nounced but not enough to make it look like it's not factory paint.

Brent

Understanding today's paint codes, help with finding metallic gray paint

Reply #2 – July 12, 2009, 04:24:37 PM

Anyone notice any vehicles out there with particularly striking flake in a charcoal color?

So far I've found:
2009 Ford Super Duty (problem here is it's the same paint code as the F150 however the F150 has much less flake and I need a lot of flake)
2003 Ford F250 Super Duty (not sure if this is the same problem where it shares the paint code with the 150 who has less flake)
2007 Camry (tad darker than I would like but in the ballpark)
2009 Toyota Highlander Limited (tad darker than I would like but in the ballpark)
2007 Mercedes-Benz S550 (almost enough flake)

Other charcoal type colors out there I noticed had a hue of purple or green or brown in them even though the window stickers referred to them as some sort of charcoal or gunmetal.

Does anyone know how mixing paint works? The PPG ingredients for the Ford 2009 Sterling Gray Metallic for instance has something like nine different parts to it. In order to get more flake, do you only increase one ingredient? My concern with just "trying" that is how adding one ingredient affects everything else like flow, how it lays, texture, evenness, hue, etc, etc. My gut tells me changing one ingredient means changing at least two others but I'm not an experienced painter and most of the painters out there just look at the computer and mix what it tells them without really knowing how each ingredient affects the mixture and other ingredients.

Understanding today's paint codes, help with finding metallic gray paint

Reply #3 – July 12, 2009, 07:39:31 PM

Trick with metal flake is proper mixing and shaking of the can prior to spraying. The flake can settle in the bottom, and when sprayed, less flake comes out due to the flake still sitting in the bottom of the can. Make sense? Then, as it is applied, the spraying technique can cause the flake to be "buried" in the color, or comes out blotchy (think tiger stripes), so proper technique is crucial as well. The clearcoat can also do strange things to the color coat depending how much clear is put on. Now, I believe the assembly line is robotic sprayed, so either the robot control was sped up for the F150, or slowed down, either way, it could cause differences. Many factors nonetheless. If you want to spray it in the color you want, I'd suggest a slight more amount of flake be added to the paint, and go from there. Only because it sounds like you'd rather have too much flake than not enough. My .02

Understanding today's paint codes, help with finding metallic gray paint

Reply #4 – July 12, 2009, 08:58:53 PM

The part you are missing is YES it is the same paint code. What makes them different is witch alternate each one is. Maybe that is something PPG is missing to tell you. But where I mix paint at work the Dupont paint computer knows there are alternates for that color. If I was to type in and 09' Ford with that paint code my computer would pop up and ask me witch one of these alternates it is. They do list the difference but to really figure it out. We do what they call Vindication. We type in the Vin for that vehicle and the Dupont computer tells us. This is the one. Then we go onto the amount to mix. So if you want that color go and GET IT. Head back to the dealer and get the VIN off the truck you like the paint on. Then head over to a Dupont paint place they can mix you the color you want first time.

Stuckman

Understanding today's paint codes, help with finding metallic gray paint

Reply #5 – July 12, 2009, 09:20:16 PM

https://corporateportal.ppg.com/NA/Refinish/PPGRefinish/Features/EN/ditzler_bigflake.htm maybe?

Understanding today's paint codes, help with finding metallic gray paint

Reply #6 – July 14, 2009, 09:43:23 PM

Quote from: ipsd;281959

The part you are missing is YES it is the same paint code. What makes them different is witch alternate each one is. Maybe that is something PPG is missing to tell you. But where I mix paint at work the Dupont paint computer knows there are alternates for that color. If I was to type in and 09' Ford with that paint code my computer would pop up and ask me witch one of these alternates it is. They do list the difference but to really figure it out. We do what they call Vindication. We type in the Vin for that vehicle and the Dupont computer tells us. This is the one. Then we go onto the amount to mix. So if you want that color go and GET IT. Head back to the dealer and get the VIN off the truck you like the paint on. Then head over to a Dupont paint place they can mix you the color you want first time.

Stuckman

If I give you two VINs, can you compare their paint ingredients? I have the VIN of the F250 I like but not the F150 I don't like.

Understanding today's paint codes, help with finding metallic gray paint

Reply #7 – July 15, 2009, 02:53:22 PM

Quote from: Cougars 2 go;282212

If I give you two VINs, can you compare their paint ingredients? I have the VIN of the F250 I like but not the F150 I don't like.

I could do that but there could be little or MAJOR differences in the two. I'm off until Saturday so I wouldn't be able to do it until then. Also if you like the 250paint and not the 150 just use the vin from the 150 to get the paint you like. Trust me look at a GMC jimmy or S10 blazer in that goldish brown color. There is something like 30 different alternates for that color. Just like those 2 truck with the same code but different colors. Make sure you ask for Dupont paint. I also mix and sell Nason that is owned by Dupont but the Nason line doesn't offer the Alternates like the Dupont line does.

Stuckman

Understanding today's paint codes, help with finding metallic gray paint

Reply #8 – July 15, 2009, 08:44:42 PM

Quote from: ipsd;282300

I could do that but there could be little or MAJOR differences in the two. I'm off until Saturday so I wouldn't be able to do it until then. Also if you like the 250paint and not the 150 just use the vin from the 150 to get the paint you like. Trust me look at a GMC jimmy or S10 blazer in that goldish brown color. There is something like 30 different alternates for that color. Just like those 2 truck with the same code but different colors. Make sure you ask for Dupont paint. I also mix and sell Nason that is owned by Dupont but the Nason line doesn't offer the Alternates like the Dupont line does.

Stuckman

They only use PPG where I have it. I will get a VIN from a F150 and post the two VINs. Thanks for checking that out.

Understanding today's paint codes, help with finding metallic gray paint

Reply #9 – July 27, 2009, 10:59:43 PM

Quote from: ipsd;282300

i could do that but there could be little or major differences in the two. I'm off until saturday so i wouldn't be able to do it until then. Also if you like the 250paint and not the 150 just use the vin from the 150 to get the paint you like. Trust me look at a gmc jimmy or s10 blazer in that goldish brown color. There is something like 30 different alternates for that color. Just like those 2 truck with the same code but different colors. Make sure you ask for dupont paint. I also mix and sell nason that is owned by dupont but the nason line doesn't offer the alternates like the dupont line does.

Stuckman

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Understanding today's paint codes, help with finding metallic gray paint

Reply #10 – July 28, 2009, 06:23:47 AM

like HAVI said, flake settles in the can. shake the snot out of it.

Paint is a controlled run, the way the paint is layed on also effects the flake and how it reflects. if you lay the paint dry.. the flakes are going to be laying down and not standing up on the substrate. laid on wet the flakes stand up and reflect

... school lol.

Understanding today's paint codes, help with finding metallic gray paint

Reply #11 – July 29, 2009, 01:41:40 AM

Well sir I went today and tried the info you provided. I have the paint code from you as UT and that shows for 09-11 fords and those VIN's all come back as before that time frame so My dupont computer tells me that doesn't work! Not sure what to tell you on that. I tell it ford and the paint code it tells the year range then brings up a list of many alternates. So as normal I go through the VINDICATION process and it gives me that year range error message. I checked it when I first got to work to double check my hand written note to what you have posted and they are the same. Double checked the Dupont computer again after lunch and it said the same thing. Maybe it will be part of our next up date I don't know but it is very strange.

Stuckman

Understanding today's paint codes, help with finding metallic gray paint

Reply #12 – July 30, 2009, 12:34:07 PM

Quote from: ipsd;284335

Well sir I went today and tried the info you provided. I have the paint code from you as UT and that shows for 09-11 fords and those VIN's all come back as before that time frame so My dupont computer tells me that doesn't work! Not sure what to tell you on that. I tell it ford and the paint code it tells the year range then brings up a list of many alternates. So as normal I go through the VINDICATION process and it gives me that year range error message. I checked it when I first got to work to double check my hand written note to what you have posted and they are the same. Double checked the Dupont computer again after lunch and it said the same thing. Maybe it will be part of our next up date I don't know but it is very strange.

Stuckman

Figures I like a color that doesn't exist. Thank you very much for running those VINs though.
Here is another VIN from a 2003 F250 SUPER DUTY. I think it was a Lariat with "Dark Shadow Gray Metallic" paint and a black rocker panel.

1FTNW21P63EC42116

Does that paint code have variances? If so, which one has the most flake?

Understanding today's paint codes, help with finding metallic gray paint

Reply #13 – August 18, 2009, 09:24:22 AM

I used to work at a caddy stealership in Omaha and I had 4 caddys parked next to each other of the same color and they all were different variences. Luckily for me I was just repairing around the hood ornament holes and used the middle varient for all 4. I feel your pain on getting the right "shade" you want.

Understanding today's paint codes, help with finding metallic gray paint

Reply #14 – August 18, 2009, 02:39:53 PM

Quote from: ipsd;281959

Head back to the dealer and get the VIN off the truck you like the paint on. Then head over to a Dupont paint place they can mix you the color you want first time.

Stuckman

Does that work for most years? I shoot ONLY Dupont and I love it, but the variants drive me crazy. I have a Dupont paint chip and paint code library for every car from 1936 until today, sometimes the paint matches perfect and sometimes, not so much. I have fixed a ton of cars over the years and I have never had the paint store ask me for a VI.