List of AGW dissenting scientists continues to grow at alarming rate

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List of AGW dissenting scientists continues to grow at alarming rate

March 17, 2009, 02:24:10 PM

http://www.epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=10fe77b0-802a-23ad-4df1-fc38ed4f85e3

tick-tock-tick-tock

My predictions are that Gore will NOT be remembered fondly when all is said and done. Meanwhile, the AGW momentum hasn't even begun to slow. Even the US Government, who is hosting this paper, is continuing to publicly push for tighter CO2 regulations, citing Man-made Global Warming as their inspiration.

It will take years for this to finally come to a head, and when that time comes no citizen will take responsibility for falling for it, or for helping the false international campaign along. They will turn on their leaders and scientific community (that's you NASA) for lying to them and trying to squeeze ever more money out of them in the name of Carbon taxes or Carbon Credits, in the cases of Corporations who pass costs on to the consumer.

Meanwhile, there is a real reason to reduce pollution in our urban areas and even contaminated rural regions. The air in LA kills more people annually than car accidents. That gets hardly a tick from consumers and regulators, but because Carbon is measurable and thus taxable, we get a world-wide initiative.

The problem is this whole movement is based on lies. Any ecological benefit that could be gained will be lost on every citizen when they finally see the truth. This is going to cause a backlash of polluting and even more wasteful lifestyles in the future, because regulators went for the cash in stead of the betterment of the world and the people who live on it.

List of AGW dissenting scientists continues to grow at alarming rate

Reply #1 – March 17, 2009, 02:42:50 PM

oldraven's monthly beating of the AGW drum - lol. Many of us have decided that global warming exists but aren't sure why. If we can use the "man made" reasons in combination with the latest oil price crisis to move into a less carbon-based energy culture, then I'm all for it - controversy or not. Besides, every time I read one of your posts stating one side on this, I see another presenting an almost completely opposite viewpoint. Not that it's not worth discussing, it's just that I'm not qualified to decide who's science is "better". :D

List of AGW dissenting scientists continues to grow at alarming rate

Reply #2 – March 17, 2009, 02:52:56 PM

Please ignore everything in my post but the link and actually read it. You'll be amazed. I promise.

If not, I'll buy you a drink of your choice. The argument isn't that one science is better, but that one isn't science at all but purely politics. Those experts are now 13 to 1, dissenting.

*edit*
“Whether the ice caps melt, or expand --- whatever happens --- the AGW (anthropogenic global warming) theorists claim it confirms their theory. A perfect example of a pseudo-science like astrology.” - Mathematical Physicist Dr. Frank Tipler, professor at Tulane University has autd 58 peer-reviewed publications and five books.

List of AGW dissenting scientists continues to grow at alarming rate

Reply #3 – March 17, 2009, 03:13:49 PM

Quote from: oldraven;262168

http://www.epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=10fe77b0-802a-23ad-4df1-fc38ed4f85e3

tick-tock-tick-tock

My predictions are that Gore will NOT be remembered fondly when all is said and done.

I think a lot of people are and probably HAVE been tired of that blowhard for a long time. Fortunately at least to my knowledge he's been out of the spotlight for the most part. You can't just go berating....EVERYONE....like that.

On a side note, I read about 2 or 3 weeks ago that apparently they missed a chunk of ice the size of Cali. up near the north pole when measuring.

List of AGW dissenting scientists continues to grow at alarming rate

Reply #4 – March 17, 2009, 03:28:06 PM

Yes. We had a year of ice recovery. According to AGW theorists, this proves their point.... somehow.

And the people keep eating it up.

List of AGW dissenting scientists continues to grow at alarming rate

Reply #5 – March 17, 2009, 03:39:31 PM

I've talked to people who WERE old enough, because I was just a toddler at the time, to see what they thought of the ozone layer thing in the early 90s. I remember it SOMEWHAT, in that it even entered things like some cartoons I loved back then. And it seems like that all of a sudden disappeared. Those people agreed, it did. WHETHER OR NOT the ozone hole was a problem/ceased to be a problem at that time/is or isnt now....no ones talking about it. Kinda feel the same way about this, wonder if it will go in a similar fashion. But I wish it would get out of the limelight and people would want to support the search for alternative energy for independence not to avoid heating up the planet to unlivable conditions entirely by ourselves...

List of AGW dissenting scientists continues to grow at alarming rate

Reply #6 – March 17, 2009, 03:39:53 PM

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If we can use the "man made" reasons in combination with the latest oil price crisis to move into a less carbon-based energy culture, then I'm all for it - controversy or not

Ignorance is bliss is it? Should be your official motto.

Remember gents, no politics allowed. We don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

List of AGW dissenting scientists continues to grow at alarming rate

Reply #7 – March 17, 2009, 03:43:33 PM

Exactly better sources are a great idea and something we need but doing it for the wrong reasons aggravates me.

List of AGW dissenting scientists continues to grow at alarming rate

Reply #8 – March 17, 2009, 03:47:15 PM

Oh yes. The P word. I never see this as a political subject, even though Gore used to be a politicker. It's an ecological subject. A matter of being lied to by the Scientific, Media, and Government worlds for monetary gain, telling us we're doing it for the Polar Bears but ignoring the Cancer riddled nations who ignored smog for decades.

List of AGW dissenting scientists continues to grow at alarming rate

Reply #9 – March 17, 2009, 03:55:38 PM

Quote from: oldraven;262172

Please ignore everything in my post but the link and actually read it. You'll be amazed. I promise. If not, I'll buy you a drink of your choice. The argument isn't that one science is better, but that one isn't science at all but purely politics. Those experts are now 13 to 1, dissenting.

*edit*
“Whether the ice caps melt, or expand --- whatever happens --- the AGW (anthropogenic global warming) theorists claim it confirms their theory. A perfect example of a pseudo-science like astrology.” - Mathematical Physicist Dr. Frank Tipler, professor at Tulane University has autd 58 peer-reviewed publications and five books.

I read it and saw nothing impressive about it. I researched it and it's a petition that Senator Inhoff of Oklahoma has been circulating for the past 10 years. Most of the hits I got when searching were from right-wing blogs, so little additional information was available to refute it. I did read a very long blog entry poking all sorts of holes in the report, but like I said, I'm not qualified to argue about this issue so I'll leave it up to the "experts" to tell me what to think. ;) :hick: :D

List of AGW dissenting scientists continues to grow at alarming rate

Reply #10 – March 17, 2009, 04:03:48 PM

Quote from: oldraven;262183

telling us we're doing it for the Polar Bears but ignoring the Cancer riddled nations who ignored smog for decades.

Cant you still get R-12 in places like China, India, etc? Mexico? I feel like MexCougar mentioned this once, the little DIY charge thingies on the shelf at Brand X Auto Parts...we got 134a...they got 12 he said. Maybe he could confirm this.

List of AGW dissenting scientists continues to grow at alarming rate

Reply #11 – March 17, 2009, 04:11:04 PM

Well Cougar, I guess I owe you a drink. Thanks for at least reading it, though this isn't a 10 year old petition. I'm not sure what that's all about. This report first came out in 2007, got a lot bigger in 2008, and is now even bigger in early 2009. If you think it's politically motivated, what do you think an Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change would be considered?

For the record, I'm an environmentalist, in case people get the wrong idea.

List of AGW dissenting scientists continues to grow at alarming rate

Reply #12 – March 17, 2009, 04:12:17 PM

This political issue affects the automotive hobby (since we seem to be getting the most of the blame for GW), so I'll allow it, unless people start throwing shiznit at each other again (IE, at the first mention of the "B" word or the "O" word I'll close it).

As for myself, I dunno whether to believe in GW or not. There is certainly no evidence of it here, where we've had several utterly brutal winters in a row. Not just brutal by means of snow, but brutal by temperature. This year was the first year I can ever remember that we had no "January thaw" (a brief period of unseasonably warm weather in January that melts a bunch of snow). It's been cold here since late November. I burned through 10 cords of rock maple before March 1st. I know three or four cold winters in a row don't mean much, but neither do the four or five warm winters we've had immediately prior to that.

I do believe, however, that if GW is a real thing it's about 95% nature, 5% man. I also believe that there are far worse pollutants out there than CO2, and I also believe that there are far nobler reasons for wanting to cut fossil fuel use than CO2 (the noblest of them being the fact that there is a limited supply of fossil fuels, most of which are under the feet of hostile nations, and sooner or later we WILL run out). For example, is the pollution required to make an electric car (including heavy metals, poisonous materials, mines to collect those metals and materials, etc) worth the bit of CO2 that is saved? Personally I think we'd be better off putting our efforts into cleaning up technology we already have (focusing on smaller, lighter, more fuel efficient vehicles). While we do this let's continue to work on alternative energy sources, but don't let's force new and not ready technology just to limit a gas we all emit every time we exhale...

List of AGW dissenting scientists continues to grow at alarming rate

Reply #13 – March 17, 2009, 04:31:06 PM

I for one believe that Global Warming itself is a reality. I just don't believe it can be affected by the level of Carbon emissions humanity can throw at the atmosphere. But I'm just a drafter. That's why I tend to listen to the 700 experts who aren't trying to belittle the other side and are telling me with a level head that the science of AGW is bunk. The sheer fact that opposing views were not allowed at the Bali talks speaks volumes. Science doesn't work with consensus, it works with figures and formulas that don't morph according to changing the outcome. That's not law, that's reverse science.

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I also believe that there are far worse pollutants out there than CO2, and I also believe that there are far nobler reasons for wanting to cut fossil fuel use than CO2.

I'm with you. We already have reasons to reduce our energy usage and emissions, but basing the reduction of a harmless gas on lies will cause a backlash in the future, and nothing will be gained. For instance, when was the last time someone in the HRM complained about the paint peeling off of their house or car due to acid rain? Not long ago we were able to take the Bald Eagle off of the endangered species list. This was due to awareness and policy changes based on truth and hard facts, not profit and fear.

List of AGW dissenting scientists continues to grow at alarming rate

Reply #14 – March 17, 2009, 11:01:28 PM

As far as the political argument goes how can you trust a guy with a 10,000sq ft house with a monthly electric bill equal to 10 average homes and, he flies a private jet everywhere (Al Gore of course).

This is fear mongering to create another tax. We've only been studying weather patterns for 100 years at the most..how can you take that small a sample and apply it to thousands of years of history to come up with a modern day proclamation that humans are destroying the world.
Isnt one theory of the disappearance of dinosaurs based on climate change...what did they do...fart themselves out of existence, because we allegedly werent around at the time burning dino dung. JMO