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Topic: Hesitation / Dying (84 Cougar, 3.8L) (Read 1936 times) previous topic - next topic

Hesitation / Dying (84 Cougar, 3.8L)

84 Cougar, 3.8L
Following all new within 1000 miles
Cap, Rotor, Plugs, Plug Wires, Distributor, High Pressure Fuel Pump, Engine Rebuilt (done primarily for head gaskets)

==============

This has been going on for a number of years.
Occurred before rebuild -- still got it!!!!

Two weeks ago during a left turn vehicle stalled -- Dangerous!!!
Restarted vehicle and hesitated then ran fine.
Later that evening, hesitated several times but no stalling.
Examined cap and rotor and had grey buildup on each.
Clean gray buildup.
Ran fine next four days.

Yesterday, making left stalled again.  Had a hard time restarting.
Finally restarted but stalled several more times. 
In a 10 mile drive, stalled three times (normally when stopping) and hard to re-start.

Pulled codes today prior running. 
No codes, On-Demand and Continuous of 1-1 (OK).

Started vehicle -- started great.

=========================
Initially thought TPS but since no codes set aside for now.

Leaning more to gas related, but injectors seem to work OK at least at idle.  -- Haven't tested pressure but with new high pressure pump
should be OK.

===========================
Any chance low pressure pump in tank may be intermittent or trash in tank and sock filter clogging which is cutting off fuel supply?

Anyway to test for trash or water without dropping tank??
Anyone have any luck with fuel additive that is supposed to absorb water?

ANY SUGGESTIONS GREATLY APPRECIATED

Hesitation / Dying (84 Cougar, 3.8L)

Reply #1 –
Did you ever check your ignition switch?

See the other thread just below on a similar issue.

It could be your LP pump though.  Have you checked the FP yet while driving? (Yes it will require a gauge taped to the windshield most likely, but that's the only way you're going to be able to test it during driving conditions).
Long live the 4-eyes!  - '83 Tbird Turbo - '85 Marquis LTS - '86 LTD Wagon

Hesitation / Dying (84 Cougar, 3.8L)

Reply #2 –
Chuck W.

Thanks for response.  Read the other thread before posting.
Why would ignition switch have anything to do with it. 
Key just sits in ignition (not touched) while driving;
I know Focus and several later model years had ignition issues
but never heard of one on a 1984
 -- please elaborate on this one??

Figured gauge would be next step. 
Since so intermittent didn't want to leave top off air cleaning (in Arizona and dusty) for any length of time to get to the Schrader (sp?) value

Hesitation / Dying (84 Cougar, 3.8L)

Reply #3 –
You haven't heard of all the faulty Ford ignition switches of the 80-90's?  The ones that have even been know to catch cars on fire?

If the switch is going bad, it can disrupt the switched power to all sorts of things, even while just driving down the road with the key in the ignition.  They are cheap to replace.  Again, it may not be your issue, but not one to rule out.

On the gauge, you might be able to at least keep the cover on w/o the filter and sneak the gauge hose out the back of the air cleaner with the top lightly attached.  Not fully sealed, but better than just open.
Long live the 4-eyes!  - '83 Tbird Turbo - '85 Marquis LTS - '86 LTD Wagon

Hesitation / Dying (84 Cougar, 3.8L)

Reply #4 –
Quote
You haven't heard of all the faulty Ford ignition switches of the 80-90's? The ones that have even been know to catch cars on fire?

Nope, not on 80s.  Know Ford Focus had issues but later models (around 1996).  Never seen a TSB related to this -- 1984 -- will doublecheck.  FYI, search of NET didn't bring up much either on Ford ignition issues other than Focus and a few other later (late 90) models. 

After sleeping on this, leaning toward:

1)  HoneyComb in catalytic may be broken and piece is dislodging during turns  -- Not sure how to check as don't hear any rattling

2)  Fuel tank has garbage(rust) or water in it.  Again never messed with.  One thought -- mine -- is maybe if lot of rust, LP Pump sock is getting clogged during turns.  Low pressure pump is original but seems to work OK -- most of the time maybe!!!!

Any advice on:

1)  How to check if water or rust in tank without pulling and dumping?

2)  Best way to drain tank (From filler tube or pulling line to high pressure pump?  Even if I drain tank, how do I tell whether or not water is in gas as water should settle to bottom of container?

Also seems to be lot of confusion (on NET) whether to use dry gas and which type (methanol or ethyonal) will bind with the water and quantity needed?  Any Thoughts?

Hesitation / Dying (84 Cougar, 3.8L)

Reply #5 –
Quote from: dw85745;225424
Nope, not on 80s.  Know Ford Focus had issues but later models (around 1996).  Never seen a TSB related to this -- 1984 -- will doublecheck.  FYI, search of NET didn't bring up much either on Ford ignition issues other than Focus and a few other later (late 90) models.

The recall ended up going back to the 1988 model year, although all of our cars had the same switches going back to 1983. In other words, they are all affected regardless of recall. It's cheap insurance...

Hesitation / Dying (84 Cougar, 3.8L)

Reply #6 –
Interesting.

Been doing more reading since last post. 
JCassity mentioned about injector screens sometime back.
Never messed with mine.  May give this a shot first.

Any tips?

Hesitation / Dying (84 Cougar, 3.8L)

Reply #7 –
One more thing of note here.  You didn't say whether or not it does this while the engine is still cold.  If not, and the TFI is mounted on the dizzy, you may have just found your problem.  With the dizzy mounted TFI, after the car warms up, the fan is pulling hot air off the radiator, and getting the TFI quite warm.

There is a known issue with the dizzy mounted TFI's.  Otherwise, why else move them over to the fenderwell with a HUMONGOUS heat sink?  The symptoms were, driving along, everything fine, then it would shut off.  Sometimes, the vehicle wouldn't crank again for 30 minutes or more (interstate driving), and other times, it would start right back up in a couple minutes (city driving).  By the time the vehicle was towed to a garage/dealer for diagnosis, it cranked and ran just fine.
 
You can have the TFI tested, however, you'll want it warm when you do.  I did it with my truck, but it IS fender mounted.  I drove it to the parts house, c00ched the TFI, and tested it while still warm.  The lower duty cycle of a slower running engine helps with the thermal problems that highway driving (more pulses per second) seems to exacerbate.
 
I think I've seen a good thread on relocating the TFI.  Grab a sink and TFI from any F-150 since 1991, and another TFI if you want.  Gut one to use as a connector and make a wire harness to go to the remote mounted one.  I've heard good things about doing this on older trucks as well.
:birdsmily:
(X2) '86 Thunderbird, 3.8L CFI, C5 Tranny
 
'92 F-150, 5.0L EFI (SD), M5OD Tranny, 3.08 Dif
 
'70 VW Beetle, 1780cc, twin Solex 43's.

Hesitation / Dying (84 Cougar, 3.8L)

Reply #8 –
FWIW -- Per major TFI manufacturer QA

The reason TFI's were failing is that during the production process an air bubble was created below one of the resistors.  This left an area that overheated the resistor and caused it to fail.  For my part only had one TFI fail (around 19000 miles -- 1986).  The movement of the TFI from dizzy to fender was before this production error was found and Ford was trying to solve problem.

Right now focusing on injectors (never cleaned -- supposedly injector cleaner a no-no, or replaced.  Found a shop test for free and rebuild for $35 each.  Hate to hazzle with CFI, but got to solve this without rebuilding the car!!!!!!!!

Hesitation / Dying (84 Cougar, 3.8L)

Reply #9 –
I used to have a van that cooked fender mounted electronic ignitions every year. used to cut out randomly and be hard to start warmed up.
happened at a gas station once and caused it to backfire in the middle of the rough end of town. It sounded like a shotgun going off. Everyone getting gashiznit the pavement. funniest thing I've ever seen. wish I had a video of it. LOL
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
***** Project "EVOLUTION" 1987 Cougar LS  & 1985 Cougar Convertible *****
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5.0 HO 306 roller block, machined GT-40P heads, Wiseco dished forged pistons, Eagle forged floating I-beam connecting rods, Lunati pushrods, ARP bolts, Scorpion aluminum 1.6 rockers, Comp Cams Magnum 266HR, Explorer intake, 65mm TB, MAF Conversion, 19# injectors, Ford Racing stainless P-headers, 2-1/2" cat-less exhaust w/ Flowtech Afterburner lers , SC AOD with 2800 BDR torque converter, 3.73 T-Lok rear, CHE rear control arms, full 2-1/2" frame w/1" jacking rails & seat supports, Rear disk brakes, Turbine wheels, All original interior w/ floor shift upgrade .......
Pretty much every panel on my 87 is new, rebuilt, or re constructed. :D
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Hesitation / Dying (84 Cougar, 3.8L)

Reply #10 –
Got serious this weekend on my 1984 to try and solve this problem once and for all..

Divided my troubleshooting into electrical a fuel.
Figured I'd start from scratch with electrical.

Pulled all the grounds and cleaned them with electrical contact cleaner. 
When I went to loosen the main engine ground nut, I found it was loose  as well as the stud part that holds the engine mounts (could loosen both by hand).

Cleaned and re-torqued.
(Stud is kinda a poor design on Fords part- IMHO.  The center stud nut is 13mm which doesn't leave much of a wall to tighten the bracket against it.  The nut for holding the starter electrical bracket and the battery ground is 15mm -- having a 15mm center stud nut would be much better IMHO)

Pulled all sensor connectors, and cleaned all contacts with electrical contract cleaner.  The EGR sensor seemed especially dirty.

FWIW --Watch out when pulling the contact leads for the sensors under the Windshield Washer bottle -- mine had never been removed since new.  A %^$#@ to get off.  Having a helper to hold the assembly while you pull helps.

Took me about 4 hours to check and clean all grounds and sensor connectors.

Ran last evening, and ran great no hesitation or stalling. 
Jury's still out on whether the problem is solved but my guess is the loose main engine ground most probably was my hesitation/stall problem.

Hesitation / Dying (84 Cougar, 3.8L)

Reply #11 –
FWIW --

As of today (7/16/2008) driven vehicle 4 times (about 15 miles each).  Per previous post action taken so far has been cleaning sensor contacts and electrical grounds.

Overall response seems better -- No hesitation, stumbling, or stalling.

Hesitation / Dying (84 Cougar, 3.8L)

Reply #12 –
7/22/2008 FWIW -- Still Running Great.  No hesitation, stumbling, or stalling.

Think I got it fixed.  Last post this thread

Hesitation / Dying (84 Cougar, 3.8L)

Reply #13 –
I know you say that you have replaced the air control valve. However this sounds like exactly what was happening to my kitty when the air control valve was clogged with carbon. You may want to try pulling that valve back off and clean it with some carburetor cleaner and also clean out any hoses running to it.

Hesitation / Dying (84 Cougar, 3.8L)

Reply #14 –
Slinky:

I think you may have posted to the wrong thread.  Never mention air control and car still running great so consider this thread resolved.