5.0 HO swap vs. conversion October 12, 2006, 04:53:25 PM So I'm considering doing a HO swap or conversion this spring. Now before you go all nuts this is going to be a stock HO swap. The car is a cruiser and I want it to look pretty much stockish for shows but I want the extra power of the HO. I'm wondering what would be a better route to take the swap or the conversion. Right now I have an 88 T-Bird 5.0 SO with a HO upper, TB, headers, and 2.25 true dual exhaust. The engine has 125,000 miles on it and runs great, no nocking, smoking, or funny noises.Here's what I'd need if I did the conversion:speed density HO computer19lb/hr injectorsE7 headsHO camNew roller liftersdouble roller timing chainnew oil pumpnew oil pan (my rear drain plug is kinda fuged up I already have a replacement drain plug in it)front and rear main seals, front cover gasket, oil pan gasket, head gaskets, valve cover gaskets, intake manifold gaskets, and head bolts.If I did the swap I'd need:rebuilt 5.0 HO (I'd get one from Motorcraft, they come with a 3 year 75,000 mile warranty. They also have a oil pump, oil pan, and a front cover installed already.)HO speed density computer19lb/hr injectorsintake manifold gaskets and valve cover gaskets.So since I know some of you have done this what will give me more bang for my buck so to speak? What's easier and what do you think I'd be better off doing in the long run?I'm looking for some input from you guys who have done this and I want to learn from your experience so I don't end up with a big head ache.Oh and a side note. Has anyone actually opened up a stock never removed motor from an 87-88 5.0 SO Cougar or T-Bird and found it didn't have a roller cam? I got in an arguement yeaterday with a guy who said that only HOs were roller cams and that the standard 5.0 wasn't. I swear that from mid 86 on all SEFI 5.0s in passenger cars were roller reguardless if they were HOs or not. Am I right? Quote Selected
5.0 HO swap vs. conversion Reply #1 – October 12, 2006, 05:30:43 PM My dead stock '86 Thunderbird with a non-H.O. 302 had a roller cam. I think all the SEFI cars did, but that may not be the case. The non-H.O. cams use the standard 302 firing order, while the H.O.s used the firing order from the 351W.You already got the biggest improvement the H.O.s had - better exhaust. I hope you're already running the Mustang headers, the Tbirds' are junk. None of the rest of that stuff will add much power, except the heads and cam, and that is going to be marginal at best.Just get the MAF setup from a '89+ Mustang, they are very common and can be found dirt cheap from people that have upgraded theirs. That way the cam and head changes you have planned won't pose any problems. You would be better off with an inexpensive pair of brand new Dart Jr iron heads (now sold as Roush heads) instead of the E7s. They're better in every way, they bolt on without modification, and don't need a rebuild like most of the E7s you find will. The stock H.O. cam is very good and can be found used for very cheap. You can reuse the factory roller cams and lifters because the lobes don't develop a wear pattern with the lifters. You can make even more power if you dig around the aftermarket a bit, and can find a grind that isn't too lumpy but will make a lot of power.Good luck- Quote Selected
5.0 HO swap vs. conversion Reply #2 – October 12, 2006, 05:53:26 PM kujo if i may make a suggestionget a nice cam for your bird :Dand i would go with the new reman if money allows... but who doesnt mind getting their hands dirty :D Quote Selected
5.0 HO swap vs. conversion Reply #3 – October 12, 2006, 06:16:20 PM QuoteYou already got the biggest improvement the H.O.s had - better exhaust. I hope you're already running the Mustang headers, the Tbirds' are junk. None of the rest of that stuff will add much power, except the heads and cam, and that is going to be marginal at best.haha... the heads and the cam are going to give you the biggest gain. you already have the intake and tb so thats good. the exaust does help as well. you already have the headers if you have the hpipe/duals. if money alows id at least go with the fresh longblock as long as its an HO. alot of those re-man units do not have the forged pistons. something to think about at least. id convert to maf. maybe a set of decent heads as well though thats going to add alot to cost between purchaseing them and a decent valvetrain kit. i think a fresh longblock would be the smartest thing to do. all new, nice and fresh. converting your old setup would be cheeper, but its still going to have 125k miles on it. likely you will end up installing some used heads with who knows what for a valve train as well as a used cam. hopefully not on all the original bearings. all that is going to push the short block harder than it has ever before. not to mention you have now torn into it. if you are going to properly rebuild your short block than all thats a non issue realy. then you can at least pick your parts out yourself. it will all look stock as specially if you use your stock valvecovers and top plate for the intake. basically the headers, injectors and maf if you install it are all thats going to give it away at first glance. Quote Selected
5.0 HO swap vs. conversion Reply #4 – October 12, 2006, 07:35:34 PM i did the swap because it was easier and faster. if you look around, you can find a HO motor cheap, grab a speed density computer (or maf if your feeling frisky) and swap it out by noon. if you do the conversion... why bother unless your REALY trying to save money, because in my mind, once the engine is appart, why not replace the pistons, cam, possibly heads ect with something better. deffinatly the cam tho, because it will never be that easy to do again and they are cheap, 150ish. Quote Selected
5.0 HO swap vs. conversion Reply #5 – October 12, 2006, 08:52:04 PM Go w/ the HO motor cause of the pistons so that in the future if you decide to put in a cam you don’t have to worry about valve/piston clearance issues. But thats just my 2cents. Quote Selected
5.0 HO swap vs. conversion Reply #6 – October 13, 2006, 01:13:46 AM Quote from: InnesGo w/ the HO motor cause of the pistons so that in the future if you decide to put in a cam you don’t have to worry about valve/piston clearance issues.But thats just my 2cents.Agreed. Aint to many big valve heads you can run with flat tops. Your cam choices are a little more limited as well. You could always order an Explorer motor and swap to the HO cam or something a little more radical (The Explorer cam is more gutsy than an SO cam , but milder than an HO cam) that way you have GT-40P heads. Those heads, a good cam, and a ported lower intake will make the go pedal fun to step on:cool: Quote Selected
5.0 HO swap vs. conversion Reply #7 – October 13, 2006, 12:49:54 PM Quote from: thunderjet302Now before you go all nuts this is going to be a stock HO swap. The car is a cruiser and I want it to look pretty much stockish for shows but I want the extra power of the HO.If I were you and could afford it, I'd go with the new long block from Ford. Your current SO motor is happy with all of it's parts and has been together for 125k miles. Whose to say you take it apart to convert it to HO and it decides it doesn't want to work for you. There are a number of stupid annoyances that could pop up using your original block.You have a beautiful car thats going to be around for a long time. It's understandable to want the HO and I fully understand that you don't want to make your car a race car but better than it is. Get yourself the new block, pull your original and store it. You never know, you may want to put your car back to stock one day. I wanted to do that with my original SO but had no place to store it :( Quote Selected
5.0 HO swap vs. conversion Reply #8 – October 13, 2006, 04:29:01 PM Quote from: shame302;108225haha... the heads and the cam are going to give you the biggest gain. I'll disagree. The heads and cam are much better but the exhaust was the biggest choking point. If you swap the internals but keep the lame exhaust, you won't gain anything at all.Not to mention that the E7s and stock H.O. cam are pretty pitiful in comparison to anything the aftermarket offers. It would be like going from an F in a class to a C-. Yeah it's better but it's still pretty bad... ;) Quote Selected
5.0 HO swap vs. conversion Reply #9 – October 13, 2006, 04:54:09 PM QuoteI'll disagree. The heads and cam are much better but the exhaust was the biggest choking point. If you swap the internals but keep the lame exhaust, you won't gain anything at all.from my own experiance, adding the exaust alone while helps, deffinetly doent offer a ton of gains. the heads, cam and intake are where its it. no, obviously the e7s cant compare to anything aftermarket but were talking stock/mild here anyway. i guarantee that if you took to stock sports and added just the true dual exaust and stang headers to one, and only the HO intake, cam, tb, computer and heads to the other, the later of the 2 would undenialbly be noticabley quicker. yeah the stock exaust blows, but the stock heads and cam suck even more. the HO parts are deffinetly going to suffer withought a proper exaust. either way, just do it all. in fact, id take Pauls advice and get the explorer engine and swap in a decent cam, or a crate engine of some sort. Quote Selected
5.0 HO swap vs. conversion Reply #10 – October 13, 2006, 06:28:47 PM Thanks for all the replys guys. Right now I'm leaning towards the 5.0 HO from Motorcraft. It costs $2,000 (according to my local Ford dealer) and comes with a 3 year 75,000 mile warranty. It seems like a steal to me at this point. I know I could go all crazy with the engine but the car isn't used for racing and I doubt it will ever be a regular at the track. I might take it once just to see how it'll run but that's about it. I could just replace it with a stock motor but I figured since a SO and a HO cost the same ammount of money why not go with the better engine. Since I already have the Stang HO shorties, 2.25 duals, and the HO upper droping in the HO is just a matter of changing the computer to a HO speed density computer and poping on some 19lb/hr injectors. Besides a HO with the 3.73 Traction-Lok rear I have in already should scoot the car pretty well:cool: Quote Selected
5.0 HO swap vs. conversion Reply #11 – October 13, 2006, 08:28:13 PM it should go alright. keep in mind that likely that engine is going to come with hyperjunk pistionas` Quote Selected
Check this out Reply #12 – October 13, 2006, 09:35:31 PM http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/tech/0408mm_dss/ Quote Selected
Same choice Reply #13 – October 14, 2006, 04:33:48 PM I just had to make the same decision. One of my 88 T birds has 64,308 miles on it, leaks nothing, and runs fine...but not quite fine enough. So I opted for the conversion. Here's some stuff I bought and prices just FYI- Mass air sensor/computer/wireharness/ & air tube- $330 ( on line auction) BTW- I'm not using it at this point19lb injectors- FREE! buddy gave'em after modifying truckGT-H.O. cam-$50 used swap meet1988 mustang speed density computer-$30 on line auctionStainless steel shorties-$218 new on line auctionGT 40 cylinder heads complete w/ new valves and roller rockers-$400TYPHOON upper & lower intake- $235 On line auction65mm T body ( with TPS & EGR spacer) $225 NEW on line..and probably another $300 or so in misc. parts like gaskets wires etc.BUT If I had 100K + miles... go new HO, & i ain't even sure you can buy a new SO. Quote Selected
5.0 HO swap vs. conversion Reply #14 – October 19, 2006, 07:26:26 PM So I might be having a local machiene shop build a HO for me. They a very respected and have done some of the engines in my Thunderbird club. All his work comes with a 12 month 12,000 mile guarentee. I was talking to him and he said he could build me a 5.0 with stock HO heads and stock HO roller cam for $2,100. Or he could build me a 5.0 with a stock HO roller cam and iron GT-40 heads for $2,250. I'm thinking for the extra $150 I might as well go with the GT-40 iron heads. Now the only question I have is will a 5.0 HO with GT-40 iron heads as it ONLY mod run fine with on speed density? If so I'm getting GT-40 heads:cool: Quote Selected
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