EFI 300 I6 plus forced induction (long post)

Topic: EFI 300 I6 plus forced induction (long post) (Read 15255 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: EFI 300 I6 plus twin turbos (long post)

Reply #15 – March 07, 2005, 10:47:14 PM

MM&FF magazine did a dyno test a while back and found that at identical boost levels a single turbo will make more power than two smaller ones. I guess the larger turbo is more efficient or something.

Just to add another idea in there, why not something along the lines of an M90 hung on the side of the block? The 300 is a torque monster and a low revver, so it'd probably respond better to a roots type supercharger than it would to a turbo. M90's are easy to find, being bolted to Super Coupes, 89-90 XR7's, and any number of GM fullsize and intermediate cars (Bonneville, 88, 98, Riviera, LeSabre, Grand Prix, etc). Since the M90 was designed for everyday use it is a very durable unit, too. With a 300 under the hood there would be lots of room for the supercharger and plumbing

Re: EFI 300 I6 plus twin turbos (long post)

Reply #16 – March 07, 2005, 11:05:50 PM

Honestly, I would rather use a supercharger over a turbo. I just didn't know how feasible it would be on a 300. Also, I have another kooky project idea involving a supercharger and a V8 Bird that might get done someday, which should fill my supercharger "itch". But yeah, I'd love to use a supercharger (especially roots-type) w/ the 300. The M90 was that Eaton model, right?

My main concern is still squashing that bad boy under the hood. I wonder how difficult it would be to get a custom version of the I6 'member. I also worry about the length of the beast and how it will affect fan use. Sometimes I wonder if I might have to get an oversized electric fan to make up for the efficiency loss of using it as a pusher.

My next concern is the electronics/EFI. I'm guessing there aren't a whole lot of performance-oriented EECs for 300s out there. Probably going to need to dig up those custom EFI setup links again, when the time comes. I'm also guessing that I'll need some beefy injectors on an engine that has the same bore and stroke as a 400. I'm having difficulties searching for info on the 300, though.. beyond the basics. (bore and stroke, bore spacing, etc.) Putting "Ford 300" and "Ford 4.9L" and a whole bunch of other combinations into Google gives me a headache after the first few hours.. and I probably looked through 15+ pages of FTE's swap section looking for 300 info. Even Clifford and FordSix weren't terribly useful at times. Seems like the biggest thing people wanna know about their 300s is how to swap a small block V8 into their spot.

Re: EFI 300 I6 plus twin turbos (long post)

Reply #17 – March 07, 2005, 11:39:33 PM

I should think that you could adapt a 3.8 V6 EEC-IV mass air computer (found in 91-95 T-Bird/Cougar, 954-95 Mustang, 89-95 SC, 89-90 XR7) to work with a 300 easily enough. The engine computer does not know whether the cylinders are in a line or in a row. It would require some creative wiring (you'd have to make a harness that would fit the inline engine design and maintain the correct firing order) but I would think it wouldn't be too hard. The SC computer is mass air, too, so it would compensate for the added displacement. If you got an SC computer you could even use it to control the "wastegate" of the M90 (yes, it's an Eaton). You could then use a Mustang mass airflow sensor calibrated to whatever injectors you used. The M90 has a bunch of aftermarket parts available (pulleys, lids, etc). I would bet that a 300 with an M90 and some tuning could easily exceed 300 reliable horsepower. It could probably do that with the stock head and intake with a bit of porting.

Re: EFI 300 I6 plus twin turbos (long post)

Reply #18 – March 08, 2005, 01:18:27 AM

i can see it all coming together allready....

Re: EFI 300 I6 plus twin turbos (long post)

Reply #19 – March 08, 2005, 10:50:37 AM

Hmmm.. interesting.

http://www.capa.com.au/eaton_mp90_4th.htm ("4th generation" version for the Aussies)
http://www.automotive.eaton.com/product/engine_controls/superchargers/M90.asp

Looking up a later-model van, I see they rate the 300 at 150 hp. You really think I should be shooting for 300 hp with the M90 and some head work?

Re: EFI 300 I6 plus twin turbos (long post)

Reply #20 – March 08, 2005, 11:27:19 AM

Here's a built (but carbed & N/A) 300 over at FTE:

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=307743&page=3&pp=20&highlight=built+300

Quote

300 H.P. @ 4600 rpm & 400 Torque @ 3200 rpm w/ a 10 to 1 C.R.
It idels @ 675 & is smooth as glass, a quarter was placed on top of the Valve Cover & it Did Not move Nor rattle.

Ross Pistons 4.060
Hastings Power Flex Rings .060
Federal Mogul Mains .020 Under
Clevite Performance Bearings Std.
Federal Mogul Cam Bearings Std.
Melling Torque Cam
Melling H.V. Oli Pump
Eagle H-beam Rods 6.300 2.100 Rod Journal
Crane Gold Race Roller rockers
ARP Main Stud Kit, Rocker Studs,
Fisher International Ballancer
Bore 4.060
Power Hone 4.060
Full P&P Intake & Exhaust
Performance valve job
Performance Balance job on Steele Crank w/ in 7 grams
Grind Rod Journals to 2.100
Plumb Intake for Heat via Water Pump
Deck Block to Square
Align hone to Factory specs
Deck block for Zero Deck
Offenhauser C Intake
Holley 1850 600 CFM
S.S. Borla 2 into 2 Header

Re: EFI 300 I6 plus twin turbos (long post)

Reply #21 – March 08, 2005, 11:47:28 AM

More I6 info:

http://www.geocities.com/edwins63/I6ID.html

Quote

The 240/300 OHV six.
All:
valve arrangement: (front to rear) E-I-E-I-E-I-E-I-E-I-E-I, hydraulic lifters, Gear driven cam, distributor in center left of block, used a 5/16" shaft oil pump shaft, cast aluminum timing cover, 7 main bearings
These engines use the ford small block bell housing like the 250 I6 (& the 289/302/351 V8).
Found in DIVCO trucks to '73
New Holland models 975, 980, 985, 990 combines, and 1047 bale wagons
240 (3.9L):
1965-1972 (1974 trucks)
bore 4" X stroke 3.18"
Full size cars, light trucks & possibly industrial applications
Heads are the same as the 300, except that the combustion chambers are smaller. A 240 can be converted into a hi-compression 300 with a 300 crank & rods. Most had a 2-grove balancer.
Entire engine was painted Ford Blue
Door codes; cars: V, trucks-'65: J, '66-'74: A
300 (4.9L):
1965-1996
bore 4" X stroke 3.98"
Truck only motor, though found in industrial (tractor?) applications as well, EFI '87-'96 (late '86 as well)
Some big truck/HD models have a forged crank. '65-83 blocks have the dipstick hole in front of the distributor for 2wd applications, 4x4s use a dipstick that goes through the pan (rear sump pan). '84 & later blocks have an additional dipstick hole behind the oil filter mount for 4x4 applications. '85 & later heads have pedestal mounted rocker arms. EFI engines had a serpentine belt, dual cast iron exhaust headers, the mechanical fuel pump mount hole is not there, though the mounting holes are there & cam lobe is still on the cam. Supposedly the engine was (is?) produced till about 2000-1 for industrial applications. Early industrial applications had an adjustable valve train (?). Most had a 3-grove balancer, though some industrial versions have a 2-grove.
Engines were painted Ford Blue till about '83, from then on engines were painted Ford Grey
Door codes; '65-'79: B, '80-82: E, '83-'96: Y

EDIT: Tacking a picture onto this post.. (it's a hacked-up version of a much larger chart)

Re: EFI 300 I6 plus twin turbos (long post)

Reply #22 – March 08, 2005, 12:38:30 PM

That's it, I'm getting info from my parts guy on the turbo 300 ci truck he built back in the early 80's (talk about a parts hauler :))

I've been in on this whole topic for a long time off the boards, I have 2 300 engines sitting in my garage begging to be put in something

Re: EFI 300 I6 plus twin turbos (long post)

Reply #23 – March 08, 2005, 12:49:45 PM

Here's a thread at FTE about turbo 300s, that also discusses the M90 later on:

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172939&page=1&pp=20

Re: EFI 300 I6 plus twin turbos (long post)

Reply #24 – March 10, 2005, 01:18:17 PM

http://www.bigblocksix.com/Eddie/injectorswap/

12# injectors stock? Ugh. That'll have to go.

Re: EFI 300 I6 plus twin turbos (long post)

Reply #25 – March 10, 2005, 03:51:25 PM

Quote from: crystal

That's it, I'm getting info from my parts guy on the turbo 300 ci truck he built back in the early 80's (talk about a parts hauler :))

I've been in on this whole topic for a long time off the boards, I have 2 300 engines sitting in my garage begging to be put in something

back in the 80's, im betting he used a similar setup to the carbed 2.3L's with turbos, that akward draw through setup

Re: EFI 300 I6 plus forced induction (long post)

Reply #26 – March 10, 2005, 04:03:18 PM

Put in a new title to reflect possible change of plans. (supercharger instead of turbo)

As for the Eaton M90.. I am starting to think twice about that one in particular. If it could be done similarly, I think I would rather go with a Kenne Bell supercharger.

Re: EFI 300 I6 plus forced induction (long post)

Reply #27 – March 13, 2005, 07:38:31 AM

I brought this subject up about 1 year ago and almost got mauled, and nothing but it wont work no matter what aditudes(me and my spelling). My dad's 1978 econoline van has a 300-6. It started up first time after sitting for more then 7 years. And before those 7 years it was only driven a couple of times in about 5 more years. We drove the van almost 150 miles with no problems, and with only 3rd 4th and reverse.(we were moving). I would think that a newer fuel injected engine would do quite nicely. If there is anything at all that you need(mesurements or anything that you can think of) I will do my personal best to help you. If my car blows up, I am thinking of dropping in the old 78's 300-6 with the old 4 speed tranny. Also check out 90's trucks for parts. I think that they will have a t-5 and everything already set up. You might have to make a custom console, because the stick will be alittle further back,because the t-5's shifters go straight to the gearbox. I say full steam ahead.
p.s. the 5.0's arent even 5.0's. So if anyone bugs you about the 6, just tell them that you are gonna drop in a 5.0 :D

Re: EFI 300 I6 plus forced induction (long post)

Reply #28 – March 13, 2005, 08:45:42 AM

Quote

I brought this subject up about 1 year ago and almost got mauled

Ah, yes... An exercise in creative thinking (uncommon swap)

Ahem... "it's a waste of time/can't be done/are you insane"

Re: EFI 300 I6 plus forced induction (long post)

Reply #29 – March 13, 2005, 09:19:12 AM

Quote from: MasterBlaster

Ah, yes... An exercise in creative thinking (uncommon swap)

Ahem... "it's a waste of time/can't be done/are you insane"

I'm thinking the same.....

But seriously have you researched a computer system to run this beast??? If not possibly a Super Coupe EEC could be adapted since it works with a boosted engine and large injectors(30-36lb depends on year). It would require a bunch of re-wiring but it could be done.